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The Renku Sessions: Barely Time – Week 8

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Hello again. This is John Stevenson and I will be facilitating a twelve verse renku, in the Jûnichô style. Over the coming weeks we will add one new verse each week, selected from your offers.

This week brought in 137 verse seven offers, from 34 poets.

I have a lot to answer for this week. So, let’s get started.

My selection for verse six contains the words “apple juice.” Verse four contains “Molasses.” While any sort of strong or direct linking to an earlier renku verse might be considered a flaw, linking to either the hokku or to the last-but-one verse (e.g. verse four, when selecting verse six) is considered a serious flaw. So, I goofed.

As has been pointed out, this particular imperfection could be fixed by changing the name of the racehorse in verse four. Similarly, since Lorin is continuing to press the case for capitalization of “earthrise” in verse two, a change will be made there; selecting something else, clearly not a proper noun, that is “still fresh in our memories.”

Marietta McGregor raised a couple of questions. “(M)aybe John would like to clarify further, that ‘remaining heat’ must apply purely to weather, not to anywhere else, such as the warmth of a bed.”

Yes, that’s right. If you look at the list of kigo, you will see that they are arranged in groupings under each season, with headings such as “Animals,” “Plants,” “The Heavens,” etc. The particular kigo, “remaining heat,” is listed under “Autumn – The Season.” It cannot be successfully deployed as a kigo unless it refers to the portion of early autumn characterized by remaining heat. This does not mean that such a phrase cannot be used for other purposes in a renku but it does mean that it cannot function as a kigo if it refers to things like the remaining heat of a cup of coffee, or of a relationship, or of the final round of a sporting competition.

Marietta also noted: “I’m also worried about ‘stickiness’ — of child seats, mud, Molasses and juicy chins. I can’t help making connections, rightly or wrongly.” This tendency to apply imagination to the finding of connections is easily overdone. Everything is connected and I believe that, given full play to my imagination, I could connect every verse of any renku I’ve ever seen. There is no stickiness overtly offered in regard to the child seats. It’s easy to imagine but it’s also easy to imagine that the temperature and humidity are low enough that the seats are not sticky. It’s easy to imagine that the baby is “sticky” in some ways but also easy to imagine otherwise. And “mud” is not currently presented anywhere in the renku, although it was mentioned in the discussion about the racehorse. We can sometimes find ourselves trying to link to things that were suggested but not actually used. As for “Molasses and juicy chins,” stickiness is the least of our problems. When I change “Molasses” it will be to something less notably sticky.

Finally, Polona Oblak observed, “another imperfection in this pairing: ‘from the pines’ followed by ‘from her chin.’”

This happens a lot in English-language renku. As do things like repeated use of articles. We have, for instance, six instances of “the” in the first six verses. If we were writing for a competition, I would want to find ways to alter any of this that seemed easily modified.

Polona goes on to say, “(O)h well, we’re only human therefore not infallible.” I think that would serve nicely as the keynote for our renku practice.

 

Here are some of the verses that struck me as candidates for our second love verse:

 

forbidden
and yet so far
so good

Richard Straw

 

mature love
only a different style
of fun & games

Laurie Greer

 

the tingle
that teases
her core

Tracy Davidson

 

a diamond collar
and the long leash
that comes after

Betty Shropshire

 

parting gift(s)
of (a) cigar case to him
and red lip gloss to her

Lakshmi Iyer

 

tabloids full
of celebrity divorce’s
spicy details

Polona Oblak

 

a red bikini
drapes over
the balcony rail

Kathleen Trocmet

Note: “Swimming” is listed as a summer kigo. If I was going to use this verse, I would want to think of some other intimate attire; something less associated with a particular season.

 

how they astonish each other
with the portraits
of their marriage

Laurie Greer

 

who says
a woman can’t also
pop the question

Chris Patchel

A question about a question, without a question mark!

 

husbands are handy
when hanging
photos

Wendy C. Bialek

 

rumour of an affair
filters through
social media

Carol Jones

 

walking barefoot
we take each other
prisoner

Jonathan Alderfer

 

a close shave
in the closet
as hubby returns

Keith Evetts

 

 

 

 

OUR SEVENTH VERSE

 

walking barefoot
we take each other
prisoner

     Jonathan Alderfer

 

Having firmly established that we have reached the love verses with verse six, we can afford to proceed with a lighter touch.

 

 

Our Renku, So Far (note modifications to verses 2, 4 and 6)

 

BARELY TIME

 

short night
barely time
to count the stars

Keith Evetts

 

9/11 still fresh
in our memories

Lorin Ford

 

somehow forgetting
the baby
in the back seat

Tracy Davidson

 

a racehorse
named Tortuga

Dan Campbell

 

the fog
has borrowed its scent
from the pines

Polona Oblak

 

he licks the apple juice
on her chin

Nancy Brady

 

walking barefoot
we take each other
prisoner

Jonathan Alderfer

 

 

 

THIS WEEK

Please offer candidates for an eighth verse, using these guidelines:

  • Two lines
  • Winter – containing a winter kigo from our list: http://www.2hweb.net/haikai/renku/500ESWd.html
  • Linking with the seventh verse only (no obvious linking to any of the first six verses)
  • Let’s have a purely nature image – no human presence
  • Late entry: let’s make this a moon verse, since I’ve edited out the moon reference from verse two.
  • Without an internal grammatical break or pause

 

Please enter your offers in the comments section, below. Offers should be made by midnight, eastern US time, on Monday, August 8. On Thursday, August 11 I will post a selection of the offers, with my comments, and select the eighth verse for “Barely Time.”

Looking forward to your offers,

John Stevenson

 

 

 

The Haiku Foundation reminds you that participation in our offerings assumes respectful and appropriate behavior from all parties. Please see our Code of Conduct policy: https://thehaikufoundation.org/about-thf/policies/#code-of-conduct

This Post Has 169 Comments

  1. hackled orb weaver’s last attempt
    to wrap the cold moon

    08.08.2022 by wendy © bialek

    orb weaver’s last attempt
    to wrap the cold moon

    08.08.2022 by wendy © bialek

  2. a snowy owl crosses
    the winter moon

    I haven’t been able to consistently keep up with the evolution of this renku, but after reading John’s discussion notes preceding the selection of “walking barefoot” today, I, too, wondered about “barely” and “barefoot” — which I then saw Keith Evetts also queried. It seems to me that, especially in a renku with only 12 linked verses, it would be a good idea to avoid repeating the same word, however modified or compounded . . .

  3. the eyes of a hawk
    under a cold moon
    *
    the moon sits
    over wintered mountains
    *
    withered grasses glow
    under a cold moon
    *
    cold and clear
    and a winter moon

  4. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    moonlight barred
    by the pond’s unyielding black ice
    – Betty Shropshire

  5. the winter moon’s wan smile
    cracks open

    the winter moon
    goes with the floes

    winter moon alone
    and palely loitering

    the winter moon caught
    in palm trees too

    an arc of flying fish
    in the winter moon

  6. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    moonlit fjords scarred
    by the howling north winds
    – Betty Shropshire

  7. winter moon
    guiding the penguin patrol
    ****
    abandoned penguin
    gazing at the winter moon
    ****
    penguins honking
    at the winter moon
    ****
    penguins diving
    into the winter moon

  8. .
    .
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer
    .
    .
    the lone wolf summons
    the snow moon
    .
    the snow moon
    and its captive audience
    .
    the snow moon melts
    on the lone wolf’s tongue
    .
    leaving only paw-prints
    on the snow moon
    .
    .

  9. Congrats Jonathan!
    .
    .
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer
    .
    .
    the cold moon
    at the end of a sentence
    .
    the cold moon
    takes a pregnant pause
    .
    hangman
    with the cold moon
    .
    .

  10. the moon also rises
    over winter mountains

    08.07.2022 by wendy © bialek

    snow-capped mountains juggle
    the cold moon higher

    08.07.2022 by wendy © bialek

  11. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    winter moon’s gentle tug
    wakes a sleeping volcano
    – Betty Dhropshire

  12. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    a great white shark breaches
    the winter moonrise
    – Betty Shropshire

  13. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    the cool touch of winter moonlight
    calms the withered field
    *

  14. the crow’s caw-caw
    at the naked winter moon

    the indifference of moonlight
    to a winter cherry

    winter moon
    over the sensimilla

    (or if Spanish preferred, sinsemilla)

    the moon fails
    to melt an icicle

  15. Congratulations Jonathan!
    .
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer

    the howl of a wolf
    echoes in the moonlit sky

    an ocean moon rocks
    in silvery foam

    moonshine
    on a blanket of snow

    tangling in bare branches
    a winter moon
    .

  16. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    the genesis of misery
    for such mere snowflakes
    – Betty Shropshire

  17. oysters thanking the winter moon
    for tonight’s high tide
    ***
    tonight’s tide
    is a winter moon symphony
    ***
    the winter moon using
    the lake as a mirror

    1. BEWARE: the above verse contains subject matter that may have remnants of human consumption/ findings or references…that we have been advised no to have in this segment of our renku.

  18. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    —Jonathan Alderfer

    a couple of cold crow
    settle on the moon

  19. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner – Jonathan Alderfer
    .
    this winter moon
    caught in an oyster shell
    .
    an oyster shell’s nacre
    reflects the winter moon
    .
    hauled up from the south pacific
    this winter moon
    .
    a huddle of penguins
    under the winter moon

  20. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    -Jonathan Alderfer

    winter moon’s fighting
    the battle of the bulge

  21. we take each other
    prisoner
    —Jonathan Alderfer
    ***
    pity those wolves on planets
    with two full wintry moons
    ***
    the winter moon whistling
    as it wanders in the night

  22. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    the new winter moon
    with the old in her arms
    *
    free, not a number,
    the winter moon
    *
    winter moonlight
    astir in tide pools
    *
    feather-chasing swallows
    in late winter moonlight
    *
    a pilgrim’s path lit
    by the winter moon

  23. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    —Jonathan Alderfer
    ***
    winter moon
    nesting in an oak tree
    ***
    oysters clap instead of howl
    beneath the winter moon

  24. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    the withered fields make their appeal
    to the merciful moon

  25. John, I like your approach to address any questions in the introduction to the following verse. and these were some efficient edits.

    well done, Jonathan!

    huh, and already a busy comments section…

  26. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    Jonathan Alderfer

    1)fallen leaves
    still string of oneness in moonlight
    *****
    2) special moonlight
    on withered pampered grass
    ******
    3) cold crow
    avoids moonlight’s glide

    4) what if moon or sun
    winter fly all the time
    ****
    5)frost captured
    by tantalizing winter moon
    ***
    6) winter rain mild
    On balcony’ shade of sly moon

  27. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    the pristine drift of plastic-laced snow
    in the winter moonlight
    *

  28. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    hoodoos sculpted
    by withering winds
    – Betty Shropshire

    1. This is wonderful, Betty. As this is a winter verse it reminded me of the essays I’ve read by John Muir when he and fellow adventurers went to Alaska.
      All the very best with this verse.

  29. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    the winter moon pulls the pod of orcas
    to safety
    *
    the pod of whales tows the winter moon
    out to sea

    1. oh–I guess I need a winter kigo in addition to winter moon.
      Revisions:

      the moon pulls the cold carp
      to safety
      *
      the cold silver carp tow the moon
      out to sea

  30. wild ducks
    take a spin on their pond

    bare branches
    capture the winter moon

    no escape
    from the circling hawk

    1. Oops! Only just seen the late addition of making it a moon verse. Oh, well, one qualifies anyway.

  31. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    the hawk calls for a third of the world
    left free for the wild
    *

  32. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    –Jonathan Alderfer

    snow clouds veil
    a winter moon
    .
    a full moon coincides
    with the winter solstice
    .
    a winter moon watches
    polar bears hunt

  33. huskies howling
    at the winter moon
    ***
    the winter moon
    hiding its dark side
    ***
    oysters dream of migrating
    beneath the winter moon

  34. such rich reading and learning, thank you to all

    (trigger finger – it should read – )

    *
    snow moon
    rests on granite

  35. frost in the sand
    catching winters moon

    alternatively:

    softly the sand
    catches winters moon

    _______________________________

    crystalized dew
    caught by winters moon

    alternatively:

    the winter moon
    crystalizing dew

    (First time ever trying this! Hopefully I followed the rules, ha.)

      1. … and you could even go:
        .
        silhouettes of geese
        crossing (or ‘across’) the wintry moon

        (use it or lose it..it’s just a suggestion for you to consider)

        1. lorin….these are wonderful!!! and very poetic suggestions!!!! i find great merit in all of these…in fact, i doodled one just like these, on a pad while working on it….i don’t have to choose just one. so i will enter all these as well. not instead, but along with the original i posted.

          your edits, though more, poetic, coverts a snap shot in time, (like a shasei) to a video….

          silhouettes of geese
          crossing the wintry moon

          wendy c. bialek with edits from lorin ford.

          silhouettes of geese
          across the wintry moon

          wendy c. bialek with edits from lorin ford.

          this is the one i doodled:

          silhouettes of geese
          cross the wintry moon

          08.04.2022 by wendy © bialek

          the reason i posted the less poetic one:

          geese leave a silhouette
          on the wintry moon

          08.04.2022 by wendy © bialek

          is that it slows motion down….like a camera….and just imprints an image on top of another image, FREEZES it! making it a montage…..a moment in time, that stays on the retina of your mind’s eye…..sealed and stamped, relished and enjoyed in its motionless, coldness!

          that is all lost for me in the video….of geese in continuous, fluid motion which is the more conventional approach we are most used to seeing, and writing about.

          so i made a conscious decision to sacrifice my wordy poetics for a unique technique that i feel enhances the feeling of winter coldness.

          though, the poetics are admittingly outstanding in the video approach.

          also….my link is “leave”….to give

          i don’t want to break the rules…. i thought john said we shouldn’t post edits on any posts….but if john has changed this….ruling….”what is good for the goose is good for the gander” LOL!!!!,

      1. susan….just would like a little clarification here….
        when you said “ending” were you referring to the last line of my verse, the last of the winter verses or a last verse, (ageku) of a renku?(or something else???)

    1. this one is a keeper!
      thank you for your attention on it, lorin
      and thank you for your encouraging words…susan.

  36. Question: we have “barely time” in the title and hokku — and now “barefoot” in v7. Is this okay??
    And: the moon, unmodified an autumn kigo, is freighted with associations of the eternal feminine and love. We have just had two autumn love verses…

    Meanwhile:

    the winter moon’s
    daylight robbery

    there’s no going back
    for the winter moon

    the winter moon
    in a web of cloud

    the winter moon
    breaks out the moonshine

    just the wind whistles
    at the winter moon

    pox marks all over
    the winter moon

    gold moonlight repairs
    cracks in the ice

    the winter moon reset
    after each extinction

    1. i find it okay….they have different meanings….one is almost and the other is completely not there.
      but what matters is how john calls it.

    2. “Question: we have “barely time” in the title and hokku — and now “barefoot” in v7. Is this okay??” – Keith
      .
      🙂 Keith, the late John Carley, a person from the North of England with a sense of humour even when dying, would’ve called your concerns here “forensic”. ‘Barely time’, to me, means ‘just enough time/ almost not enough time’, but does ‘barefoot’ mean ‘just enough foot’ or ‘not enough foot’?
      .

    3. we’ve had two love verses, the first of which is set in autumn whereas the second one is nonseasonal (although things could be said about barefoot but let’s not go there since it isn’t mentioned in our reference list). winter moon per se has nothing to do with love. as i see it, the moon is the satellite orbiting the earth and other (feminine, love etc) associations are irrelevant unless directly alluded to

      barely time and barefoot – i see no issue whatsoever

      1. “. . . (although things could be said about barefoot but let’s not go there since it isn’t mentioned in our reference list). ” – Polona

        True, Polona, ‘barefoot’ isn’t mentioned in the ‘500 Essential Season Words’, the kiyose we’re going by.
        It is considered as a kigo in Higginson’s ‘Haiku World’, though:
        P 130 –
        ” BAREFOOT, hadashi (all summer) What better symbol of summer than feet’s freedom from shoes and socks?

        ohashi nite
        neru matenro e
        hadashi muke

        on the great bridge
        sleeping, bare feet
        toward the skyscrapers — Takashi Kodaira, Japan [k] ”
        .
        & Basho wrote one, at least. Here is a translation:

        Taking a nap,
        feet planted
        against a cool wall. – Basho (trans. – Robert Hass )

        1. palona and lorin….i would think that seasonal/barefoot only matters if your subject(s) are outdoors.
          we are free to go barefoot indoors at any season….in jonathan’s verse….he doesn’t indicate outside or inside….but, if one views this love encounter, as i do, as occurring inside ….my belief is that it is immune to a seasonal stamp.

          1. yes, Wendy, that’s one of the reasons i didn’t want to make an issue of it. no big deal when writing for fun but i’d want to avoid this kind of reference altogether if writing for a contest

          2. yes…i agree palona, it is best to avoid using distracting seasonal references…as it muddies the reader’s understanding and directional placement of verse. ..and would be disqualifying in a contest of more scrutiny.

  37. Congrats, Jonathan…what a wonderful love verse. I plan on writing a few verses to it before the deadline on Monday evening.

    John, thanks for taking on this renku and maneuvering through all the pitfalls associated with them. I appreciate all of your comments from week to week as well as your decisions

    Speaking only for myself, I participate because I am trying to understand the form and all the linking that goes along with the different verses. Frankly, I don’t always understand the links and verses, but I figure every week is a learning experience for me. I wonder about the fact that each poet has their own life experiences which affects how they see various verses.

    Thank you again for choosing one of my verses, and that you modified it, that’s fine, too. I am just glad that you have taken on this role and are willing to teach us, or at least me, how to write renku. I may never understand the form entirely, but I am learning. On the other hand, some of the verses I have written have turned (with modification) into haiku, which have been accepted in journals. Thanks again, John.

  38. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner – Jonathan Alderfer
    .
    black swans in the rushes
    under winter’s pale moon

  39. “Late entry: let’s make this a moon verse, since I’ve edited out the moon reference from verse two.” – John
    .
    What moon reference?

    “Earthrise still fresh
    in our memories “

  40. 9/11 still fresh
    in our memories – Lorin Ford
    .
    somehow forgetting
    the baby
    in the back seat – Tracy Davidson
    .
    a racehorse
    named Tortuga – Dan Campbell
    .

    It’s a clever fix, John, I have to admit. Dan gets to keep his proper noun. My (prior) verse loses its proper noun (and it’s mood) altogether and is replaced the USA disaster of September 11th, 2001 by the well- known abbreviation, 9/11. The incident occurred in your autumn & my spring but it’s not on the Japanese kigo list we’re going by so it doesn’t count as seasonal verse. (I answered Wendy’s query re the season of Earthrise in a previous week. Her question was, in essence, something like “When it’s spring in Houston what season is it on the moon?” )
    .
    Though you’ve Americanized my wakiku (and the terrorist attack on the Twin Towers in your neighbourhood was undeniably terrible) and changed the mood drastically, the idea of using numerals to replace a proper noun ( a proper noun that had, apparently, become outshone by Dan Campbell’s proper noun two verses later) is clever. So is replacing Dan’s horse named Molasses with an island named ‘Turtle’ (Tortuga) (So, a query: does that mean no more foreign words and no more place names and no more sea creatures for the rest of this renku? )
    .
    These big Green Sea Turtles are not slow, though, and they swim great distances. I have the honour of being a deemed Turtle Woman. This happened because a group of these big, curious turtles came along and swam with me, several miles out of Cooktown, with nothing else around except my friend who was several fathoms deep building something to do with an pearl oyster farm. It frightened the wits out of me at first, being surrounded by heads like something dragonish and alien, but then I realised what they were. Being deemed a Turtle Woman, I had to give my word to protect turtles and never eat them.
    .
    As an irrelevant ps : though I wouldn’t bet on a horse named Molasses, I would place my bets on a horse named Turtle because that horse would probably be on the records as having WIW (won in wet). 🙂

    1. lorin….9/11 may have occurred in ny, usa but affected and remembered w/w.
      the trip to the moon was launched in florida, usa….and the photo
      called, earthrise, was “born and edted” in usa in a darkroom. as it was
      slide film in the camera on board and had to be converted to a print
      using labs in usa. so my question is….if an egg is fertilized on a ship
      was the baby born on the ship or where the parent gives birth to it?

      i like very much….what john has tried to accomplish….any mistake(s) that may have occurred, at your expense….i am sure was done without malice to you and your country.

      as far as seasons go for the moon…..i am sure, soon, technology will catch-up…and we will know
      its seasons….as we do with other planets in the solar system. the season that may show in a photograph of the earth from the particular part of earth captured in said photo…can be obtained under careful view at the moment the camera takes in the image.

      1. “lorin….9/11 may have occurred in ny, usa but affected and remembered w/w.” – Wendy

        Yes, in the sense that we have World Wide News and in the sense of the (earlier) shooting of your President Kennedy. But the season in which those in each hemisphere received that news, even the season that the thing happened, differs. You are one of the last of the ‘flat earthers’. (I write this from a cold August morning, nearly noon. You (or THF will receive it, in a few seconds at most, on a hot August night. (probably hot… who really knows these days of scary climate change?)
        re your:

        “the trip to the moon was launched in florida, usa….” (yes- Lorin) and the photo
        called, earthrise, was “born and edted” in usa in a darkroom” (yes, -Lorin) as it was
        slide film in the camera on board and had to be converted to a print
        using labs in usa. ” (yes, and so?- Lorin)

        “so my question is….if an egg is fertilized on a ship
        was the baby born on the ship or where the parent gives birth to it? ” (Wendy)

        🙂 🙂 🙂 Nice try, Wendy. Obviously a baby is born where the mother gives birth to it. If it’s unlucky, it might be born today in the Ukraine.

        But as a metaphor for ‘Earthrise’, birth and babies analogies don’t cut the mustard. Ask any of your more reliable, educated fellow citizens. What you’re implying is that a photo of the Earth taken from a spacecraft very close to our moon on December 24, 1968 must be seasonal. And since the spacecraft was launched from the USA and the photo taken by an American, then relayed to Earth, the photo of Earth, you claim, must be seasonal . Why? because it was taken by citizens of the USA, developed in the USA, owned by the USA etc. and since it was winter in the USA on Dec. 24th 1968 and subsequently into January when copies of the photo were being made and distributed, Earthrise has a season, and that season is winter.

        This is absurd, Wendy. Think about it. Earthrise, humanity’s first visual (let’s not pick bones…the named photo wasn’t literally the first) first shared image of our planet, Earth, from space, from a point in space very close to our moon, can’t have an earthly season, any more than subsequent images of Mars and Jupiter have earthly seasons. Earthrise is ‘no season/ all seasons’ because it our first view of the Earth, the whole planet, from Space. Not of any particular place, nor a particular hemisphere. What season is it on Earth now?

        Earthrise, unlike 9/11, unlike the shooting of your Pres. John Kennedy, or that of John Lennon, cannot even at a stretch imply a season.
        (And the reason John’s … sabaki John Stevenson’s … 9/11 tweak to my Earthrise ku works in the position it’s in (note that it’s a no season/ all seasons verse) is because “memories” also has no season.)

        1. it is my observation, that “our memories”of earthrise….didn’t ring true for john s. as he had stated that he didn’t think “photograph” upon his personal reading of your original verse.
          it is my opinion:
          a photograph is flat…and therefore can not show the whole entire earth as totally round.

          i do agree that memories can occur at any time….events….may be subject to seasons.
          9/11 was not just usa news….people from all around the world were killed, physically injured and/ or psychologically victimized by this event.

          my question to you, lorin….is the second verse of a renku… supposed to reflect the same season of the hokku?

          1. “a photograph is flat…and therefore can not show the whole entire earth as totally round.” – Wendy

            Also, a photo is taken in an instant, and the Earth keeps turning. ‘Earthrise’ is the name of a photo but that photo implies a turning Earth, the planet we live on, seen from “outside” for the first time. A view the whole human population of Earth could (& can) view. We often see a moonrise from Earth. The title of that photo is connected to what we call moonrise. (This is so obvious!)
            .
            “my question to you, lorin….is the second verse of a renku… supposed to reflect the same season of the hokku?” – Wendy

            A question far better directed to John, not only our sabaki but one more knowledgeable and experienced on these subjects. However, I do find this in Renku Reckoner:

            Wakiku, verse #2

            ” . . . In all but the shortest and most recent types of sequence, the Wakiku automatically takes the same season as the hokku . . .” – (bolding, mine – L)

            (The Junicho is one of “shortest & most recent types of renku sequence” referred to. There is a lot of flexibility. My guess is that the hokku & wakiku don’t have to be in the same season for Junicho, but the idea of the wakiku supporting the hokku remains. My view of the ‘Earthrise’ wakiku I wrote of is that it was an “all seasons/ no season” verse supporting Keith’s summer verse (‘short night’). – Lorin)

            This is from ‘Renku Home’, which you should be able to reach from the 500 Essential Season Words page:

            under “Shorter Renku”
            .
            —Practical Guidelines for the Jûnichô Renku Form —

            by Seijo Okamoto, Master of the Haikai Sesshin

            translated by William J. Higginson and Tadashi Kondô

            1. A renku must have literary value and a sense of stylishness. This is what Bashô called “timeless and fashionable” (fueki ryûkô).

            2. A twelve-tone renku consists of twelve stanzas. There is no front or back. One blossom stanza, which may be any flower in any season–it need not be cherry blossoms. One moon stanza, which may be any sort of moon in any season. About two love stanzas, in any position. About half the verses will be seasonal (a pair each for spring and autumn, one each summer and winter), and half non-seasonal, in a flexible order. About half with human focus, the rest on places, animals, plants, and the like.

            3. Progression and diversity are the essence of renku. Accordingly, a wide variety of things in nature and the world of humans should appear.

            (End of translation.)
            —–
            Are you satisfied with that, Wendy?

      2. “i like very much….what john has tried to accomplish….any mistake(s) that may have occurred, at your expense….i am sure was done without malice to you and your country.” – Wendy

        Goodness me! I’ve participated in many renku with John as sabaki here at THF and have every respect for him. I certainly don’t need someone like you implying otherwise, Wendy.

      3. “. . . as far as seasons go for the moon…..i am sure, soon, technology will catch-up…and we will know
        its seasons….as we do with other planets in the solar system. . . . ” Wendy

        “Apollo 8 (December 21–27, 1968) was the first crewed spacecraft to leave low Earth orbit and the first human spaceflight to reach the Moon. The crew orbited the Moon ten times without landing, and then departed safely back to Earth.[1][2][3] These three astronauts—Frank Borman, James Lovell, and William Anders—were the first humans to personally witness and photograph the far side of the Moon and an Earthrise. ”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8
        .
        Tell us, Wendy, what season was it for the Apollo spacecraft and crew during the period of Earth’s December 21-27, 1968?

        What season was it when “The photograph was taken from lunar orbit on December 24, 1968

        1. this is all i am saying…a season can be obtained from the content of the photograph.
          earthrise is the name given to a photograph and was what you ref. in your verse.
          that is all.

          1. “this is all i am saying…a season can be obtained from the content of the photograph. . .
            that is all.”- Wendy

            No season can logically be derived from the content of that photo, Wendy.

            I don’t understand why you keep pushing this ridiculous assumption of yours. It’s basically:

            “Earthrise is seasonal and it takes its season from the fact that the photo was taken from the Apollo 8 spacecraft (an American spacecraft) orbiting the moon , taken by American astronauts. Since it must’ve been winter in the USA when the photo was taken, Lorin’s original wakiku must’ve been a winter verse.”

            What rubbish! And that is all.

        2. an “image” was captured on the spacecraft on slide film……the “photograph” was made… born on earth, in a lab in usa and the photo was edited by turning the image under an enlarger…in usa lab. we didn’t have digital….like we do now.

          and though the earth was rotating….the image freezes in time…..so i believe it could be possible to find out was hemisphere, or area of the earth was exposed to that image and determine a season.
          i believe, if we are able to freely communicate and debate issues….without name calling, intimidation and put downs….we could find out that we can agree on at least…9 out of 11 issues.
          your input is valuable to the group, your talent is immense….let there be no more need for negative, personal attacking words. that is beneath the character i expect from a poet of your standing.
          if you don’t agree with my words….why not say, “you don’t agree”??? rather than call it rubbish?
          that would be quite satisfying for me.

      4. “… and the photo
        called, earthrise, was “born and edted” in usa in a darkroom. ” – Wendy
        .
        All sources I know of spell ‘Earthrise’ with a capital E, just as the name of our planet is correctly spelt with a capital E (since both Earth and Earthrise are proper nouns.) I don’t know why you persist in believing both Earth and Earthrise to be common nouns. Perhaps, Wendy, you don’t know the difference between a common noun and a proper noun?

        While earth is something we dig up when planting our tulip bulbs or whatever, the same stuff that ants dig up in tiny portions to build their tall anthills, and the same stuff that some dogs like to kick up with their hind legs.,Earth is the name of this planet we all live on. There’s no debate about it.

        1. i have taught myself to type with a straw, as i am doing now, as i have an incurable, medical condition…aggravated by raising my arms.
          hence the verse…husbands are handy when hanging photos….above…
          and many other poems i have previously, pecked out, that allude to it.

          lorin. i am very sorry that my lower case typing has been an inconvenience to you.

          1. Considering the subject was originally whether or not a proper noun in verse 4 (Molasses) was allowable, considering that there was a proper noun in verse 2 (wakiku) (Earthrise), and also that John subsequently changed that proper noun to a ordinary noun, I would say that my point regarding your use of lower case was fair.

            *I don’t like your sarcasm, whether or not you really do have a medical condition that allows you to type all the letters of the alphabet in lower case with a straw but disallows you to use the Shift key.

  41. Thanks for the painstaking explanations and revisions, John. And congratulations, Jonathan.

    As I understand it, the brief is now for a winter verse that is a moon verse, set in nature and with no human element. “Moon” is an autumn kigo, but we’ve had two autumn verses. The only option from our saijiki is “winter moon”. Although there are precedents for having two kigo in a verse if the season is clearly established by one, and elsewhere “cold moon” is held to be a winterised moon. So, here goes on the chance that there is some flexibility…

    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer

    flurrying snowflakes
    settle on the moon

    moonlight catches
    a flurry of snow

    ice can’t keep
    the moonbeams still

    winter moon in the eye
    of each silver koi

    the window stolen
    by the winter moon

    the glacier sheds tears
    at the winter moon
    (well, this is personification week over in the Haiku Dialogue…)

    Or if non-moon alternatives are possibly acceptable, deferring a moon verse:

    a chrysalis waits
    in the clutch of ice

    a particle of grit
    enters the oyster

    the crow’s toes
    frozen to a pole

    1. Keith, the moon is an autumn kigo only without any other modifier that puts it in another season. you don’t need to call it a winter moon to qualify. for example, snow in the same verse as the moon will take precedence and the verse will be considered a winter verse.

      moonshadows creep
      across the river ice

      1. I’m happy with that approach; but sometimes it brings a comment that “you have two kigo in this verse”. I think that as long as one kigo takes a clear predominant role in establishing the season, and the other is consistent with it rather than at odds with it, it should be fine. Frogs do hibernate under the ice…..

        1. no one can deny the moon can be observed year-round. but it is around the autumn equinox that it is the most prominent, hence its placement in the autumn season. that doesn’t mean the moon is not allowed in any other season. for example, hazy moon is listed as a spring kigo.

          other cultures also observed the moon. there’s a list of the so called traditional full moon names (not associated with standard kigo): https://www.timeanddate.com/astronomy/moon/full-moon-names.html

          *
          “I think that as long as one kigo takes a clear predominant role in establishing the season, and the other is consistent with it rather than at odds with it, it should be fine.”

          yes, i completely agree with that.

  42. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    winter greens show there’s a way
    out of anything
    *

  43. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    -Jonathan Alderfer

    Mandarin ducks slip
    into eclipse plumage

    1. but, Patrick, ducks acquire their eclipse plumage during summer when they molt. in winter males will feature their best breeding plumage.

  44. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    the stalactites of icicles
    barring the way
    *

  45. Way to go, Jonathan! I, too, am so amazed at everyone’s creativity. And thanks again John, for sorting through all the questions, concerns and problems. I want to wish for you what you do for us . . .that this can be FUN! :). So here’s hoping everyone sends in some good and fun verses for you to read and select from.

    winter grasses bend
    beneath the north wind

    *

    north wind frees
    the tree of leaves

  46. a gust of wind
    embroidered with snowflakes
    .

    on the far shore
    rime ice lasts all day
    .

    frost heaves
    buckle the tarmac
    .

  47. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    ice encasing
    the dogwood buds
    *
    in the cocoon
    on a winter’s night
    *
    frost clinging
    to windows
    *
    snowflakes falling
    into one another
    *
    river ice locking
    with the riverbank
    *
    logs falling inward
    in the fireplace
    *
    cold crows
    in fallow fields
    *
    winter flies finding
    the same pane
    *
    the sandpiper
    retraces its steps
    *
    flowers out of season
    freezing together
    *
    fallen leaves
    interleaving
    *
    withered pampas grass
    bordering an empty pool

  48. nice one, Jonathan ..

    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    – Jonathan Alderfer

    a chill blustery wind
    obscures the tracks

  49. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    spear flowers proving the survival
    of the fittest
    *

  50. Hi, John. Difficult decisions made and I don’t envy your position as Sabaki. Thank you for taking heed of everyone’s concerns so graciously. And thank you for mentioning mine as having a love verse potential.
    One question as to the winter verse. Will there be a followup winter verse to this one?
    Betty

    1. betty,
      in this form of renku, junicho….it says that there is only one winter and one summer verse, two spring and two summer….from renku reckoner by j. carley. so we a free to choose early. mid, late and all kigo words.

      1. we are free…..that is…if john s. chooses to follow the structure listed in john carley’s book

        1. …and/ or on William Higginson’s ‘Renku Home’, Wendy, where precisely the same structure is found.

      2. We have had 2 Autumn verses so there’s that. I figure each Sabaki has their unique take on the progression. 😊

    2. Wendy and Betty,
      re Wendy’s comment ” betty, in this form of renku, junicho….it says that there is only one winter and one summer verse, two spring and two summer….from renku reckoner by j. carley. ”
      .
      While this is true, not everyone will have or will be following the late John Carley’s ‘Renku Reckoner’, and I imagine that might include our Sabaki , John Stevenson. Luckily for anyone wanting to know about how many winter verses etc. the Junicho has, the Junicho is the Junicho whatever source we use and ‘Renku Home’ is only a click away. If you can reach the ‘seasons’ page to find kigo you can reach the ‘shorter renku page’ on William Higginson’s ‘Renku Home. From there you’ll find the main points about Junicho on the ‘SHORTER RENKU’ page. http://www.2hweb.net/haikai/renku/shorter_renku.html
      .
      Just scroll down to Junicho or click on ‘Twelve-Tone (Jûnichô)’ at the top of the ‘Shorter Renku’ page.

      ” Practical Guidelines for the Jûnichô Renku Form

      by Seijo Okamoto, Master of the Haikai Sesshin

      translated by William J. Higginson and Tadashi Kondô “

  51. Thank you so much for mentioning my verse. Liked the way Renku is moving along.

    .
    My offerings
    .

    wintry wind whistling
    through a bamboo fence

    .

    scent of winter wood
    in the hanging icicles

    .

    winter moon light up
    the silver shackles

    .

    Lakshmi Iyer

  52. Congrats Jonathan!
    *
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    – Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    a turnip instead of a carrot
    for the snowman’s nose
    *
    a proud crow
    strutting across the snow

  53. Thank you John! It’s getting tougher to navigate all the requirements and still be poetic—I got lucky. And thanks to all my fellow poets who continue to offer new ways of looking at the world that would never have occurred to me.

  54. Congrats, Jonathan!
    *
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    – Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    a murder of cold crows
    croak ‘neath an overhang
    – Betty Shropshire

    1. revising to:
      cold crows croak
      ‘neath an overhang
      – Betty Shropshire

      * According the the 500 Words . . ., “cold crows” is “Used equally for ravens” and ravens croak while crows caw so hence my use of the word “croak”.

  55. another enlightening online renku experience. thank you John for demo-ing how learning and spiffing work using talent and “colleagueality”. i so appreciate learning from this THF community.

  56. another close of the year
    ending in the red

    freeze warnings recommend
    we bring in the bonsai

    lighting the smudge pots
    while sleet turns to snow

    hunting for a key
    to the wood shed

    1. slight edit to first verse:

      another close of year
      ends in the red

      breaking out snowshoes
      for the first big snow

      snow up to
      the razor wire

  57. Interesting reading, John, this is why Renku will remain a bit of a mystery, for me!
    Thank you for mentioning mine.
    Congratulations, Jonathan.

  58. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer

    a battering snow
    guilty of the cover-up

    08.04.2022 by wendy © bialek

  59. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    the north wind releases a cry
    from the frozen reeds
    *
    the freezing wind releases a cry
    from the withered reeds
    *

  60. walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer

    winter moon
    captured in clouds

    08.04.2022 by wendy © bialek

    1. John, i am confused, ….have we decided not to have a moon verse?
      was it earthrise or stars that was/is the reason? or are we free to have a moon verse now that earthrise is edited out?????

  61. great job jonathan! a splendid love verse, indeed.
    and thank you john, for all that hard editorial work!
    (and thanks for the mention, john)

    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner

    Jonathan Alderfer

    trapped in ice
    the calligraphy of twigs

    08.04.2022 by wendy © bialek

  62. Wow–this has certainly been full of surprises! Thanks for all the explanations about our twists and turns, John. And Jonathan–thanks for a great second love verse.
    *
    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    *
    Jonathan Alderfer
    *
    a silver chevron of half-
    frozen wild ducks
    *
    wild ducks breaking free
    of the frozen pond
    *

  63. Wow, great explanations John. So much going on.
    Congratulations Jonathan.

    walking barefoot
    we take each other
    prisoner
    — Jonathan Alderfer

    three sheets to the wind
    ridding bed bugs

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