Haiku Dialogue: Poet’s Choice, Ambiguity

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1. Patricia,
   No way to respond to you directly, but thank you for your thoughts coming as they do from you as an editor…much appreciated.
   I think much depends on individual editor’s requirements.
   Treading carefully,
   but gratefully yours,
   Ingrid

2. .
   time t r a v e l

   w
   h
   e
   r

   e

   do the years go
   .
   #Piku314

   (I thought I submitted one this week, but it must not have been received. I can’t keep up with the comments, but I’m so inspired by reading everyone’s words.)

3. skimming the posts
   everything & nothing
   ambiguous

   wendy c. bialek

4. kjmonro can you please (through email) verify that my submission for next’s week’s theme “pathway image” has been received? thank you in advance. i sent it over night.

   1. hi Wendy – your pathway submission has been received…
      cheers, kj

      1. thank you kj! Glad you are nowhere near dorian!

5. Ok, that was odd. I was so sure I was replying to Alan’s reply.

   1. I thought the same with my early reply Debbie.

   2. You can reply to me anywhere. Alas there’s no tagging system on this type of social media platform. 🙂
      .
      I’ll take a stroll through the posts. 🙂

6. Thank you Alan; another one to ponder! Re the Human Kind journal, when I was reading all the online archives I could find recently I found several haibun you had written there. I was waiting for an opportunity to tell you how much I enjoyed them. I have some ideas for haibun but haven’t taken the time to work on them yet.

   1. Hi Debbie! 🙂
      .
      Thank you for enjoying my haibun, that’s deeply appreciated. I’m excited that you have your own ideas for haibun as I feel we can now break away from whatever was the ‘norm’ of a few years ago. 🙂
      .
      If you are ever interested, putting my Call of the Page hat on, we are due for Karen (Hoy) to create a new haibun course. The haibun courses can be for either haiku or tanka or even both, or any other approach. We are inclusive, and always excited about how someone will reveal their own voice in haibun:
      https://www.callofthepage.org/learning/

      .
      Not that I am hunting for comments on the web journal, but it would be terrific for the other poets to receive comments, or more comments, as the founding editor Robin Anna Smith would love readers or poet/readers to leave comments or even engage with an author. 🙂
      .
      HUMAN/KIND current issue:
      https://www.humankindjournal.org/issue-1-8.html
      .
      warm regards,
      Alan

      1. Alan –

         I will be watching for the new haibun course!!!

         I also especially liked you haiku this week. “the waves between lovers” – so many possible interpretations.

         1. Thank you! 🙂
            .
            Yes, I can’t wait for Karen to issue some new courses including haibun. At the moment she has run out of spoons, as the Japanese Prints virtual and physical events/projects have been very long hours, but fantastic of course. 🙂
            .
            .
            You had an MG!!! Wow! I bet you have an Aston Martin now. 😉
            I remember someone who had just left school (at 16 or 17) coming back by driving his E-Type Jaguar and allowing me to sit inside!!! My favourite car after the original Aston Martin, and I also loved MGs too, of course.
            .
            .
            sunset special
            once mine
            the MG zipping past
            .
            Margaret Walker
            .
            .
            Love the opening line, and the pivot/hinge line works a treat, plus the verb, so a lot of key words all working together. Not as easy as it looks, I often see too many key words pushed into a poem and making them inoperable.

            1. Alan, can you tell me what is M.E. and dropping spoons? Not familiar terms in the states, although I’m guessing the second is overloaded or overworked or overwhelmed?

            2. Thank you for the comments about my haiku! I still think it reads a bit awkwardly but I can work on that.

               Yes, I loved my MG – and no I don’t have an Aston Martin (that would be very nice) – but would love to have my 1974 bright orange MB again. A friend of a friend who is a collector bought it – and I still see it “zipping by” occasionally.

               I am sure Karen is out of spoons – but I’ll watch for the haibun class. No rush – I am sure she needs the rest.

            3. Hi Margaret,
               .
               That’s an interesting statement:
               .
               ” I still think it reads a bit awkwardly but I can work on that.”
               .
               .
               Well, a poem is never ‘really’ finished, it’s just the draft (number/version) we stop at. 🙂
               .
               Even famous ‘mainstream’ poets who have poems published in prestigious journals may still tweak or have tweaked a poem for a Collection, a Selected, and/or Collected. It’s when we get an opportunity to push it into the next ‘draft version.” 🙂
               .
               .
               Is it awkward?
               .
               .

               sunset special
               once mine
               the MG zipping past
               .
               Margaret Walker
               .
               .
               It is a haiku, and not all of them work on an oiled version of syntax, grammar, and intention.
               .
               .
               Could it have been ‘special sunset’ instead, so adjective precedes noun?
               Well, first of all it would make it a bit bland, and a bit of a broadcast about you telling us when a certain sunset is “special’.
               .
               Secondly, is it really an adjective and noun in the wrong order? Methinks it’s not an error. 🙂
               There might not be a sunset special MG model or any type of car for that matter, although I could be wrong, but the first and then second lines are enhanced by that wonderful last line of movement.
               .
               An open top sports car driving along at the early stages of twilight, with that magical hour making everything super-realistic.
               .
               .
               Is the haiku still clumsy, badly composed, not compelling, building up to that last line?
               .
               .
               Could it be, instead:
               .
               .
               sunset special
               the MG zipping past
               once mine
               .
               .
               or
               .
               .
               special sunset–
               the MG zipping past
               once mine
               .
               .
               ???
               .
               Personally I love the original version posted here! 🙂 That long(er) line is perfectly positioned:
               .
               .

               sunset special
               once mine
               the MG zipping past
               .
               Margaret Walker
               .
               .

      2. Dear Debbie,
         Contrary to the ‘experts’ M.E. is not the same as CFS (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome).
         .
         Spoons:
         https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
         https://butyoudontlooksick.com/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/
         .
         Even US and UK vets will have versions of this, whether M.E. or CFS or PTSD or MS etc…

         1. Alan, am glad I asked as the spoons concept is so relevant to my professional and personal life. Can’t believe I hadn’t heard of it before in all my reading. Can contact you with details if you want as this isn’t the place. My monoku of a couple weeks ago is relevant. Good your wife has a spouse that believes her. Thx.

            1. Hi Debbie,
               .
               You can click onto my name and it’ll take you to my/CoTP homepage. 🙂
               .
               Gosh, I always believe my wife, she’s at least 99% right about everything, true story, so I’d be really dumb not to take her advice etc… 🙂

            2. Debbie –

               ME and CFS are becoming more well-known in the US and the reference to “spoons” is very commonly used. The award-winning documentary “Unrest” is about ME. (Also the author of “Seabiscuit” and “Unbroken” has ME.) The CDC and NIK have just released new guidelines for diagnosis and treatment.

            3. Thank you Margaret for the info on ME/CFS. Something I will pass on to someone close to me. I was surprised I hadn’t heard of the spoons in all of my PTSD research, but very applicable there too.
               *
               Alan, when I said I’m glad you believe your wife when she is at her limit it was because more often than not sufferers of conditions that are not physically or medically obvious are not believed. Especially those who are high functioning otherwise. My monoku that theme week addressed that.
               *
               labeled resilient the pain disregarded
               *
               I again had to click on the red reply on mine, but it seems to follow the thread. Thank you!

            4. Ah, yes, thanks Debbie, it can be difficult, as Karen, though tiny or tinier, than Tom Cruise, could outdo him on those fingertip climbing mountains, and she lived in the Serengeti, driving on her own, almost like The Walking Dead/Fear the Walking Dead characters, but peacefully. 🙂
               .
               A lot of M.E. sufferers will also insist on working hard or harder, which is horrifiying. Yes the monoku is apt for M.E. or CFS etc… as well as #MeToo situations.
               .
               Perhaps you could make it a sticker poem and go guerrilla where you place it, might be worth a go.

            5. Debbie ! There was no “reply “ button to you latest post but if you want or need more info on ME/ CFS please let me know. I could email or PM you.

            6. Margaret, I’m finding some good info online but I might take you up on your offer later. Thank you.
               *
               Alan, interesting to hear about Karen’s adventures. It is especially hard on active people to face their limitations. What inspired me to create the monoku, which started as three lines but I couldn’t get it right, was my frustration hearing the common response to childhood trauma “children are resilient.” As you say it can apply to many situations, some very personal. Thank you.

         2. Alan,

            Thank you for the additional comments on my haiku. I especially appreciated the comments on word order in L1. You are correct that “special sunset” would not have at all conveyed my meaning!
            And I could have reversed lines 2 and 3 but since the prompt was “ambiguity” the reversal seemed to leave it less free for the reader to wonder about the meaning – even though the longer middle line seemed less awkward.
            Thanks!

7. The long night
   That wind that blows on closed shutters

8. Thank you to Craig for bringing us these poems in the midst of a hurricane! As far as storms go, I don’t think it gets much more ambiguous than that!

   Also hoping that my best haiku wishes made it to Bristol and that the presentation was a brilliant success, Alan!

   Speaking of (or to) Alan, his (your) haiku leads my list of notables this week:

   intertidal zone–
   the waves within lovers
   during moonfall

   —Alan Summers

   This is a beautiful haiku, so intricately interconnected. To me, the ambiguity emerges in not knowing exactly where the motion we feel begins and ends. It seems to move, mobius-like, from the tides outsides us to the inner tides and back again, all under the pull of the moon. I love the duality of “intertidal zone,” which again could point to an external place or something entirely internal to the lover in each of us. Lovely…

   curved river
   a mother of many
   children

   —Martha Magenta

   I love the way that, no matter how we choose to read it, life spills forth from this simple poem. Is the river itself the mother to many children—fish children and bird children and maybe even hippopotamus children? Or does the curve point to a particular mother of many children somewhere along the river? Even this mother might be other than human. I appreciate how much room there is for everyone here.

   mossback
   your wish
   to wear green

   —Kath Abela Wilson

   Kath Abela’s wonderful use of the word mossback provided the opening ambiguity. Given various possible definitions, we have to ask whether the haiku is about an avid outdoorsman, or a wiley large-mouth fish, or a team of professional hunting guides. Any or all of these might “wish to wear green” out of a desire for camouflage. As one of Irish heritage, I could also see a possible tie-in to that moss-backed homeland and the wearin’ o the green we often associate with St. Paddy’s Day. Six lovely words strung to gather to create a multiplicity of images.

   drug dog
   with a cocaine habit
   working overtime

   —Garry Eaton
   I came back to Gary’s haiku several times. What brought me back was the juxtaposition of “cocaine habit” and “working overtime.” This made me look beyond the ubiquity of illegal drugs, which necessitates working dogs or people working like dogs, to the possibility that being a work-a-holic is akin to having a coke habit, as in: the cocaine habit we (particularly in America) have of working overtime. I like when ambiguity makes me think!

   bottled flower:
   the red skirt inside the wardrobe

   fiore in bottiglia:
   la gonna rossa dentro l’armadio

   —Giuliana Ravaglia

   Guiliana’s haiku is just lovely to read, particularly in the native tongue. In looking up the phrase “fiore in bottiglia” online, I came across images and instructions to make flowers out of plastic water bottles. The cut-out petal shapes make me see the flare of the red skirt as it swirls around the wearer’s legs. I like the potentiality here—the possibility of a flower hiding inside an everyday water bottle, like the swirling motion held waiting in the still skirt. But I can also read the haiku as an indication of feeling bottled up and unable to reach one’s potential, though the reason why remains unclear.

   this last window
   faces the mountains
   I am snowfall

   —Alfred Booth

   This haiku spoke to me directly, as the desk I am sitting at to type this faces a window which faces the mountain (in my case, Pikes Peak). Although I am close enough to only able to see the lower ridegline, I know from hiking up to it that the mountaintop is just over that ridge and across the reservoir. When winter comes—which it could at any minute now—the snow will blow down from the peak and I will see it first from this window. Where the ambiguity entered into the haiku is in the wondering what might be implied by “I am snowfall.” For me, it seems tied to the “last” in the opening line. As this is very likely the “last” place I will live, I can see the eventuality of my ashes becoming one with the mountain’s falling snow someday. I like that, despite the ambiguity here, there is also a sense of certainty.

   leaving everything inside the fairy ring

   simonj

   I just loved the magic in this haiku. I imagined all sorts of possibilities, from a small child leaving treasures for the fairies (as my own daughters used to do on Full and New Moons) to women leaving ill or stillborn infants in the woods for the fairies, in the hopes they might be restored or reborn into a better life in another realm. There is a sense of instruction here, and perhaps healing, too: when in doubt, leave everything inside the fairy ring. We just never know when magic might prevail.

   out-n-back
   the steps
   I’ve already taken

   —Don Miller

   Because I live just around the corner from a number of mountain hiking routes, I saw a literal type of trail here—the one I like the least: out-and-backs. For whatever reason, I much prefer loops. Which made me ask myself why that is. And Don answers that question for me astutely in the second and third lines—because I dislike having to retrace steps I’ve already taken. This then expands the haiku into a larger life lesson, that having to re-learn or re-trace or re-do things feels a LOT like those out-and-back trails I’d rather avoid. Then again, out-and-backs are often straight forward; one is less likely to get lost, having already navigated the trail one way. Maybe when we take steps in advance, life, too, becomes more straight forward. The interpretation—and therefore the associated emotion—is left up to the reader. A loop of ambiguity!

   1. Not sure why the comments blank eats spacing–I even wrote out all my comments on a separate Pages document and cut and copied them here, to try to preserve the spacing between poems and commentary; they were present right up until I hit the big red Post Comment button. Then, om nom nom, spacing gone! Any tips from the Forum Pros out there?? Much appreciated!

      1. Autumn, if you put a full point (full stop/period) after the line where you would like a break, that seems to be the best strategy.
         .
         I found this out when playing the renku games on this site.
         .
         Give that a go, cheers, Marietta

         1. Appreciate the tip, Marietta.
            .
            Very retro–almost like the “Stop” between lines in morse code.
            .
            If it works now, I’ll give it a try next time I post comments!
            .
            Many thanks, Autumn

         2. A question if I may, please, Marietta, or anyone else in the know….is it permissible/acceptable to separate poems in the same way (with a full-stop) when submitting a string of poems by email to editors? Without it, if they all get scrunched up together, it must make for tough reading.

            1. As an editor I can tell you that it does make for hard reading. Please leave a few line spaces between poems, alternately add a full stop, maybe a row of stars.

   2. .
      Dear Autumn Noelle Hall,
      .
      You said:
      .
      “Also hoping that my best haiku wishes made it to Bristol and that the presentation was a brilliant success, Alan!”
      .
      .
      We had a full house! People of all ages (some I encouraged to submit to Lori A Minor’s publications).
      .
      We even had someone from Mainland China! 🙂
      Now that was awesome, talk about distance!
      .
      Karen Garvey, the Bristol Museum(s) Events Officer put this up in real time last night:
      https://twitter.com/bristolmuseum
      .
      I cannot get over how much hard work went into this event by Kate Newnam, Senior Curator, and Karen Garvey, and the museum crew.
      .
      .
      We even had one person from the British Haiku Society attend, and it was great taking a cab back to the train station, and sharing part of the train journey too! She also gifted us a sketch and haiku she created from the Asmolean Museum too!
      .
      My wife is resting up (she has M.E.) as there was a lot of travelling upstairs to the prints exhibition space, and coming back down, and then doing a massive workshop. You can see a shot of most of the people, and Karen (Hoy), myself, Bertel Martin getting around the tables.
      .
      Tucked behind me was a poet with a black eye (so British poet) and he reminded me he had heckled me at a reading I’d done a while back, but only afterwards, and he was very drunk that night.
      .
      I love being heckled! I told him he should have done it during the reading. Not in a masochistic way, but the interaction can be fun for both parties.
      .
      Anyway, he was fine last night, and he didn’t know he was sitting next to another poet (we had a wide range of audience people, not all writers) that benefited him as she is a strong and up and coming poet. 🙂
      .
      .

      Speaking of (or to) Alan, his (your) haiku leads my list of notables this week:
      .
      Gosh, thanks! 🙂
      .
      .
      intertidal zone–
      the waves within lovers
      during moonfall
      .
      —Alan Summers
      .
      .
      “This is a beautiful haiku, so intricately interconnected.”
      .
      Thank you!
      .
      .
      “To me, the ambiguity emerges in not knowing exactly where the motion we feel begins and ends.”
      .
      .
      Thank you!
      .
      .
      “It seems to move, mobius-like, from the tides outsides us to the inner tides and back again, all under the pull of the moon. I love the duality of “intertidal zone,” which again could point to an external place or something entirely internal to the lover in each of us. Lovely…”
      .
      Thank you, I really appreciate the close and careful reading.
      .
      I also like the idea, when I wrote this, at least subsconsciouly, that humans are not the only lovers on the planet, on land or sea, or in the tides.
      .
      There maybe Burt Lancaster and Deborah Kerr, but equally valid are all the other critters, from tiny almost microscopic ones to our co-mammals.
      .
      Bowled over by your choice of my haiku and your commentary!
      .
      .

      1. Hey, Alan,

         So happy to hear you had a full and attentive house at the Bristol Museum! Thanks for including the link–it was great to be able to see the pics, especially the gallery shot that shows the prints on display–WOW, how cool to be able to get so close to them! I recognized you right away–even without the plinth!😉 I’ll be interested to hear how the project continues to unfold….

         Reading your extensive and generous commentary really inspired me to take the time to read the haiku offerings here more closely. I am out of practice when it comes to the form, but not so out of it that I don’t recognize an opportunity to learn and to improve ALL my writing by developing a better understanding of what is happening in these poems each week. I think everyone participating would agree that you set the bar high and encourage each of us to reach for it–many thanks for that, and for believing we’re all capable of grasping that bar!!

         1. Thanks! We had a last day rush on tickets. I’m guessing either Kate Newnham (who seems to work 23 hours a day and be a mom) or Karen Garvey dropped leaflets around the other media and art venues. We had an amazing array of people attend, and most were not poets, or if they were, they hadn’t been allowed the courage to submit their poems before.
            .
            Yes, that gallery shot and the others at the moment, were from Karen Garvey, the events officer. Karen (Hoy) and myself got really excited when she mentioned she was a Scouser, and her Liverpool and/or Bootle accent came out stronger. It’s like constant poetry when you listen to someone from the Liverpool area in the U.K. 🙂
            .
            From the Call of the Page side of things, Karen (Hoy) needed to rest as she was closing to losing all her spoons (an M.E. term) and I was also burnt out, because the long hours before and during the event day were equivalent to a week long festival (as I know).
            .
            The deadline for online submissions is until tomorrow (Sunday 8th September, 2019) although we won’t close it until Monday late morning U.K. time.
            .
            Updates will come through our newsletter to start with, and then go onto the Call of the Page homepage. As Kate and Karen G still had big events to run, alongside the daytime routine of the museum, we’ll get back to them later about things, but a selection could appear on the Bristol Museum and Art Gallery website. Also Call of the Page wants to do something extra, which will also take careful planning once we’ve collated all the new poems as well.
            .
            We have almost every country, but nothing from SPAIN! 🙂
            .
            URGENT CALL OUT TO SPANISH haiku and tanka writers for this project, and any good Spanish natives, who are, or can be translators could get a bonus. 🙂
            .
            I must admit I’d rather have been walking around the audience than in front of that stand, but audience members were made to feel relaxed and free to shout out questions or wait for the roving microphone. And we had plenty of incredible questions! 🙂
            .
            Setting the bar is very kind. 🙂
            I certainly do like to highlight that many of the haiku that appear on KJMunro and Craig’s features are worth not just a second visit but a few more too. It’s incredible how this Haiku Dialogue feature has evolved, and is an incredible resource in its own right. BUT, and this is lovely BUT, it could become pretty much the best anthology for themes and topics that could catch the imagination of newcomers and experienced poets both! 🙂
            .
            I wish we could all meet up in a physical and virtual conference and just talk, and laugh, and ask questions and give answers in a relaxed, comfortable, and friendly atmosphere! 🙂

   3. Thank you so much for reacting to my haiku. Yes, the fragment in its ambiguity takes its hint from “last.”

      1. Hi Alfred,
         .
         Your reply appeared as a separate post from Autumn Noelle Hall’s post:
         https://www.thehaikufoundation.org/2019/09/04/haiku-dialogue-poets-choice-ambiguity/#comment-107240
         .
         Here’s is the commentary from Autumn Noelle Hall, for other readers to see:
         .
         .

         this last window
         faces the mountains
         I am snowfall
         .
         —Alfred Booth
         .
         .
         Autumn Noelle Hall said:
         .
         “This haiku spoke to me directly, as the desk I am sitting at to type this faces a window which faces the mountain (in my case, Pikes Peak). Although I am close enough to only able to see the lower ridegline, I know from hiking up to it that the mountaintop is just over that ridge and across the reservoir. When winter comes—which it could at any minute now—the snow will blow down from the peak and I will see it first from this window. Where the ambiguity entered into the haiku is in the wondering what might be implied by “I am snowfall.” For me, it seems tied to the “last” in the opening line. As this is very likely the “last” place I will live, I can see the eventuality of my ashes becoming one with the mountain’s falling snow someday. I like that, despite the ambiguity here, there is also a sense of certainty.”
         .
         .
         Pikes Peek:
         https://www.pikes-peak.com
         .
         .
         re:
         .

         this last window
         faces the mountains
         I am snowfall
         .
         Alfred Booth
         .
         .
         Ah, I love it and it reminds me of two haiku I’ve written, but your poem is very different, and is fresh and original! 🙂
         .
         .
         snowing
         through the blizzard
         particles of me
         .
         Author: Alan Summers
         Anthology: Earth in Sunrise: A Course for English-Language Haiku Study (Kumamoto University, Japan, textbook for teaching university-level English-language education) ed. Professor Richard Gilbert and David Ostman
         .
         .
         And:
         .
         .
         I start to rain
         and into falling leaves
         my childhood
         .
         Alan Summers
         Troutswirl – The Haiku Foundation –
         A Sense of Place: HIKING TRAIL – sight ed. KJMunro
         .
         .
         I’m also reminded of Kate Bush’s son singing on her album, I think this one and another one:
         Kate Bush – Snowflake (50 Words for Snow).
         .
         .
         Back to your haiku, which I will unashamedly repeat again! 🙂
         .
         .

         this last window
         faces the mountains
         I am snowfall
         .
         Alfred Booth
         .
         .
         The first two lines can be literally taken as simply a last window in a row of windows, perhaps a type of hotel or ski resort etc… or the last window looked through when leaving the venue.
         .
         I’m reminded of being astonished that my marrakech package holiday apartment overlooked the Atlas Mountains! It was the first and last view every single day, as I couldn’t believe my cheap tourist holiday accommodation, a lovely tired old apartment, offered such a view. Both that fact and your haiku reminds me of what is quoted from Matsuo Basho: “Learn about the pine going to the pine” where easily added could be this: “become the pine”. That no separation we sometimes experience when we are in what I call the ‘writer’s fugue’ or dream state/trance/zone etc…
         .
         .
         The last line is breaktakingly beautiful and as someone who one Winter spent up to or more than 12 hours out in the snow, willingly, and up and down the motorways where several blizzards were blowing, and I wound my window down I feel I’m allowed to be one with your haiku.
         .
         .
         Is it ambiguous? If we take things literally, and step outside of both the poetry and the poet, and our own times of being out in the elements (of weather) where we are caught up with its beautiful force, and it’s a way of being private where no one can do anything to interrupt us being us, then perhaps we think it’s ambiguous or two ambiguous.
         .
         Are we that last window, either reader or poet, or both? Or if we leave a wonderful holiday adventure, with a place with a view, is it the window that is the window? Or do we make it a window?
         .
         Please, lose yourself into this safe snow fall, this snow blizzard.
         .
         Alan

         1. You might like to see this video of snow and snow globes, and Kate Bush’s son singing:
            .
            Kate Bush – Snowflake – 50 Words For Snow – Chronicles of the Snow Globe – Chapter One
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEWMYfcg1o8

            .
            .

9. like things that are as clear as mud….how would i go about explaining…. the unexplainable or the inexplainable ?

   how to distinguish between illegible/or purposely mysterious meanings? Does a mysterous poem automatically make it ambiguous?

   does a poem have to be written clearly before it can be labeled ambiguous?

   it is in search of the answers to these questions that i would seek before making my decisions of what poems here…best achieve the goal.

   1. Wendy, to me it is a matter of emotional response vs an analytical one on some of the very ambiguous ones. I just go with that.

      1. is/let journal is an interesting place to visit, including the Richard Gilbert interview.
         .
         This haikai verse by Michael O’Brien might feel ambiguous at first but worth re-reading:
         https://isletpoetry.wordpress.com/2019/09/05/3171/
         .
         I feel that ambiguity can work in different written ways, and great comments by both Wendy and Debbie, because they are constructive challenges.

         1. Alan, I added the is/let journal to my list of resources, thank you. I think I have them all and another pops up. Fascinating Skype interview with Richard Gilbert re ambiguity etc. I will check out the haiku sanctuary forum sometime also.
            *
            Re ambiguity, as I see a trend to become more ambiguous, more artsy, more clever, I hope that haiku will still remain accessible and inclusive to everyone, while at the same time attracting new poets and readers. I understand that haiku is intended to be interpreted by the individual, that ambiguity means several possible meanings, or obscure.
            But a journal or collection of all highly ambiguous haiku/senryu can be brilliant but mentally and emotionally exhausting for the reader. It is good to be stretched, good poetry does that and has also served as a social siren. But I hope haiku doesn’t lose its “suchness” as discussed last week, and the calming beauty of nature mixed in. Like a concert or dance performance, the loud and the soft, the highs and the lows, the fast and the slow are mixed in a way that prevents the audience from tuning out from emotional exhaustion. That would make a perfect collection in my opinion.

            1. Hi Debbie,
               .
               You said:
               “Re ambiguity, as I see a trend to become more ambiguous, more artsy, more clever, I hope that haiku will still remain accessible and inclusive to everyone, while at the same time attracting new poets and readers.”
               .
               .
               Personally I write all approaches to haiku, and love them all! 🙂
               .
               It’s difficult to continue on our journey as a poet and artist if we secede/withdraw from our development and progress as a writer, but understand that communication is vital.
               .
               The nub is that how do we communicate? I like those Science Fiction treatments where we have no choice but to communicate with a species who doesn’t have our recognised systems. We can of course turn away, perhaps at our peril, but push ourselves. The best example is Arrival. I much preferred the short story (book), but the film treatment received healthy critical response too.
               .
               .
               Arrival:
               About linguistics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrival_(film)#Linguistics
               .
               About the book and movie:
               https://www.theverge.com/2016/11/16/13642396/arrival-ted-chiang-story-of-your-life-film-twist-ending
               .
               .
               My book Does Fish-God Know, although not noted by the establishment 🙂 Maybe I still am that outlier. 🙂 Has many ambiguous and/or ambivalent work but has proved hugely popular amongst all kinds of haiku writers and readers.
               .
               .
               ” a social siren.” Great phrase!
               .
               .
               Any kind of poetry can often benefit from variety. Some longer poetry can remain in one theme and one style, but haiku is different, although there are great exceptions as I’ve written about in…
               .
               .
               Haiku Collections and Themes: Themocracy: The Themocrats and their Concept Albums Four book reviews by Alan Summers of writers who weave theme.
               .
               .
               Published Blithe Spirit Vol 25 No. 3 August 2015 and also available on Area 17 which is my personal blog.
               .
               .
               I do have a completed manuscript, which is ready to go but I’ve put it on hold, that hopefully does what you want for a perfect collection. 🙂
               .
               .
               Yes, all sorts of approaches, but also have those calmer and simpler ones too. 🙂

            2. Alan, there is no red reply on yours, maybe at the limit, but wanted to say thank you for the additional comments and good discussion on ambiguity. Haiku like all art continues to push boundaries.

            3. Ah, yes, some don’t have reply buttons so it’s the nearest one above, that you can see.

10. how would it be explained that this was cut-off from my above post?

    H=usually means HOSPITAL in USA
    but it could stand for anything that starts with the letter, “H”

11. Hello everyone!

    For those of you who may be concerned, I have evacuated from Wilmington to Charlotte, North Carolina. We are hoping Dorian stays off the coast, but I rode our Florence last year at home and a second hurricane a year later wasn’t something I wanted to experience. I listened to that wind for about 48 hours last year. Enough is enough.

    One thing I would like to reiterate to everyone: when you submit your poem through the Contact Form, please make sure you see the following message: “Thanks for contacting us! We will get in touch with you shortly.” before you close your browser window or move on to another website. This ensures that your message went through.

    Thanks for another fun series. Hope everyone continues to participate with a new set of kjmunro’s photo prompts.

    Now, everyone please envision Dorian wandering off to sea!

    1. Good to hear you are safe Craig. Thoughts are with you all.

    2. glad you are safe, Craig. Glad that you were able to make this post.

       i am imagining the “H” spins out to the ocean, far from any land as it spirals up the east coast.

    3. Craig, I hope you soon will be able to safely return to your home.

    4. Thank goodness you are okay! This hurricane has killed seven people or more elsewhere.
       warmest regards, and relief.
       Alan

    5. So glad to hear you are safe Craig and here’s praying Dorian will wander out to sea and dissolve itself peacefully. Thank you for all the work you’ve done here with Haiku Dialogue, it’s been very inspiring!

    6. I don’t blame you for evacuating. I’ve been through too many but in the long skinny state of Florida it could go anywhere. Charlotte sounds safe for you.

    7. Glad you are safely out of harm’s way, Craig. May you be able to your home soon.

    8. thanks for this, Craig!
       kj

12. Ambiguous | Definition of Ambiguous by Merriam-Webster
    https://www.merriam-webster.com › dictionary › ambiguous

    ambiguous • \am-BIG-yuh-wus\ • adjective. 1 a : doubtful or uncertain especially from obscurity or indistinctness b : incapable of being explained, interpreted, or accounted for : inexplicable 2 : capable of being understood in two or more possible senses or ways.

13. I kept coming back to this one by Ron Scully:

    box of old books
    smell of Les Misérables
    saved for later

    Some thoughts. Is the poet delving through a box from a yard sale, and saving a particular book to read, noticing it has that so-familiar ‘old book’ scent? Or is the poet sifting through books to sell or donate, and realising that Les Mis was once put aside ‘for later’, but now will never be read as the time has never come? Indeed, who did put the book aside? And why? Much ambiguity here. I might add, I’ve been sifting through my book collection, and putting some in boxes, unread. They had been ‘saved for later’!

    1. this evaluation i am totally on board with….Marietta, and i would add that the word “smell” makes this so much more intriguing to me. Smell is totally up for subjective judgement.
       Not sure if Ron is using it as the sense of smell or switching the sense to one of feel as in resonates.

       to be more precise: the extreme range can be….is this book moldy?
       do i want to sniff if now…do i want to deal with this scent in the here and now….is there a special memory associated with this book that may override his more discernible, objective reasoning for keeping it or nixing it?
       Is it the subject/story/message of the book? Which also deals with the process of making choices and trying to find one’s core beliefs and how other’s judge the legality and morality of our actions and what consequences are to be fettered out or not?
       the act of stealing bread….is a crime….but the reason for the crime may be noble,,,to feed a starving family….the story of Les Misérables ….for a reason i don’t know for sure….one has decided not to decide at this time and has placed this decision on hold for now. Brilliant poem Ron for this theme of ambiguity.

14. This entire list was fun to read and think about. Thank you Craig for your oversight these five weeks.
    *
    the weight of a feather
    the space between
    black and white keys
    *
    Thorsten Neuhaus
    *
    Intriguing contrasts and just enough ambiguity for me.
    *
    bottled flower:
    the red skirt inside the
    wardrobe
    *
    Giuliana Ravaglia
    *
    Lovely and interesting.
    *
    curved river
    a mother of many
    children
    *
    Martha Magenta
    *
    Concise but many possible meanings, and all those lyrical Rs.
    *
    first rain
    on the welcome mat
    a paper crane
    *
    Agus Maulana Sunjaya
    *
    Unusual to see rain and paper together, and there was something soothing here to me.
    *
    autumn dew
    I do love you
    do I love you
    *
    Anna Maria Domburg-Sancristoforo
    *
    Clever and all those love questions…
    *
    intertidal zone –
    the waves within lovers
    during moonfall
    *
    Alan Summers
    *
    Not as ambiguous as some of Alan’s I’ve pondered. A beautiful haiku, and to read out loud.
    *
    And to note Susan Rogers, Susan Bonk Plumridge, and Kathleen Mazurowski. Lovely this week in keeping with your continuous themes! That was fun to follow.

    1. Ah, you wanted something really ambiguous and mysterious perhaps?
       https://www.humankindjournal.org/contrib_alan_summers/issue-18-alan-summers
       .
       🙂

15. thanks for including mine 😀

16. Good evening Craig, as always a nice review of haiku. I don’t see the haiku I sent

    08/28/2019

    ambiguity.

    X-rays –
    the hidden face
    of the moon

    1. Hello Angiola,

       Your submission did not come through to me on the 28th. I have added your haiku into the blog now.

       Sorry for the inconvenience.

       1. Thank you , Craig

17. cul-de-sac
    white or yellow peach
    .
    Francesco Palladino…highlghts ambiguity by offering us a choice, hightened by the cul-de-sac/lack-of-choice juxtaposition. The cryptic comes from the metaphor, which is also for the reader’s choosing.

18. Congratulations, Karen! Many good ones posted.

    If all are still going up mine is missing, by the way, as I see a couple of others are.

    1. Hi Pris,

       I reviewed the Comment Form message I received last week and could not find your submission. Please feel free to email me and I will add it to the blog as soon as I can.

       1. Craig, you’ve evacuated. Just let mine go for this batch. Take care.

19. Dear Craig,
    Greetings. Delighted to see mine here, included in this wonderful forum, many thanks for the same. This week of so many wonderful writes, I pick this:

    The image runs through ..

    full moon –a night without any dreams
    Rosa Maria Di Salvatore

20. Thank-you Craig for all your efforts on this column. This week’s column on the technique of ambiguity was difficult to write for. There is a middle point to be found between being ambiguous and being too ambiguous. I applaud the poets who made the attempt.

21. Once again–so many I keep getting lost in the list. I was so focused on ambiguity of juxtaposition that other types went by me. These jumped out:
    *
    cardiogram
    the doctor shakes his head
    up and down

    Bakhtiyar Amini

    wow–this one has ambiguity through and through. I also like the contrast of reading the medical test results and trying to read the doctor’s body language. well done!

    *
    mossback
    your wish
    to wear green

    Kath Abela Wilson

    this is written so crisply and surely that one can’t question it…and yet, so many questions are there! Nice juxtaposition in the writing technique.
    *
    unknown path
    the child trusts
    his father

    Tsanka Shishkova

    what a lovely evocation of childhood: everything is ambiguous outside that core of certainty, the bond between parent and child.

    *
    the tiniest bloom
    I have ever seen
    this whole field full of glory

    s. zeilenga

    can’t be sure which bloom you mean, but scale is only one part of the wonder of a field. I really like trying to imagine this one. Thanks!

    *
    broken vase
    a pair of eyes glows
    in the dark

    Neni Rusliana

    ..but are they the eyes of the perpetrator or only another witness? Hmmmm
    *
    Grandpa’s voice
    a hole in the clouds
    widening

    Edward Cody Huddleston

    I’d call this one more mysterious than ambiguous; it sends a lovely chill
    *

22. Kathrine Monro, do you know if Craig is around? He hasn’t gotten back to me,( email) and he lives very close to where the mandatory evacuations are happening in North Carolina due to the approaching storm, Dorian.

23. Many thanks, Craig, for including my verse. Hope all is well with you.
    .
    I haven’t read the entire collection, but I will.
    .
    So sorry I am unable to attend the, one breathe poetry event, Alan.
    The art work is very beautiful, I have looked at them many times. I look forward
    to knowing how the event went, no doubt, it will be a huge success.
    .
    All the best
    carol

    1. That’s a shame, but we will have more things planned, and we do like afternoon events as you know! 🙂

       1. Thank you Alan 🙂
          I know, but this was of particular interest, maybe next time 🙂

          1. Since I could not come up with what I considered an appropriately ambiguous haiku without just being obtuse, I hesitate to comment here. But I shall anyway! 😊. There are so many beautiful poems here but so many seem to be either too direct or to personal to be considered ambiguous. I guess that why I didn’t manage to respond. However I shall keep trying! Here are a few that really struck me as filling the expectations for ambiguity:

             fine sand –
             my father’s rough hand
             close to mine
             .
             Maria Teresa Piras
             .
             The toughness of his hand could be a positive or a negative aspect for the poet.
             .
             .
             intertidal zone–
             the waves within lovers
             during moonfall
             .
             Alan Summers
             .
             Thank you Alan for finding that fine point between the waves where certainty and uncertainty abide.
             .
             .
             receding hairline
             my connection to the
             Milky Way further away
             .
             Stephen A. Peters
             .
             How does the poet find that connection? Through his age, his father, the waning of his masculine pride? Many questions!
             .
             .
             neither here nor there
             becoming lost in the mist
             between he and she
             .
             john hawkhead
             .
             Is this a poem about gender, or love, or the unity of two people? That’s what I all ambiguous!
             .
             .
             curved river
             a mother of many
             children
             .
             Martha Magenta
             .
             I love this poem for the ambiguity it raises. Is the river the mother of now rivers/children, or does the mother contemplate the river of life in thinking of her children? So many ways this poem could go.
             .
             .
             passing through the hyaline my makeshift mind
             .
             Shloka Shankar
             .
             Such a visual poem yet so hard to catch! It seems to be a shapeshift poem.
             .
             .
             autumn wind shapeshifting silence
             .
             Michele L. Harvey
             .
             And here we do have a shapeshifting poem! Autumn winds are seldom silent. From where that silence?
             .
             .
             the weight of a feather
             the space between
             black and white keys
             .
             Thorsten Neuhaus
             .
             As an amateur pianist I love this one! The weight of a feather between any of the keys, any of the notes, any of the tones. Beautiful tone image!

             1. Sorry this posted under a subheading. I meant it to be a regular post. Not sure how to fix it! 😞

             2. Thank you Peggy!!! 🙂
                .
                .
                intertidal zone–
                the waves within lovers
                during moonfall
                .
                Alan Summers
                .
                Peggy said:
                “Thank you Alan for finding that fine point between the waves where certainty and uncertainty abide.”
                .
                It certainly is not as easy to have ambiguity without being obtuse or opaque, which is why these prompts/challenges are so useful. Thanks Craig! 🙂

24. tunnel fog
    the wedding song from
    an abandoned dream

    wendy c. bialek

25. Just dipping in for now – this fascinating collection of ambiguity will require much pondering – I smiled at the acerbic offerings of political comment, possibly the first of their kind in all these series:
    .
    Donald Trump
    i can detect
    no ambiguity

    Pere Risteski
    .
    .
    he lies
    we know he is lying
    beloved politician

    Vishnu Kapoor
    .
    .
    Breathing a sigh of relief that I could understand a fraction more than I couldn’t, this was fun, and brought me straight back to childhood:
    .
    chewing boiled lollies
    those striped pyjamas
    I really hated

    Marietta McGregor
    .
    and, having enjoyed midday siestas many a time on a flat roof, this picture of peace and languor was perfect, especially with its ‘sun falling through’:
    .
    rooftop reverie…
    the sun falling
    through the clouds

    Neelam Dadhwal
    .
    .
    Quite a challenge this week’s had been, and I look forward to reading all the comments and learning more.

    1. Thanks for the kind words, Ingrid!

26. oh Alan, maybe you could hold off with your lists of comments…..my poem is missing from the list.

    1. Hi Wendy!
       .
       Don’t worry, I can’t comment for a time, so far collated 65 pages of wonderful haiku and tanka for the Japanese Prints exhibition tomorrow, and there’s a lot more to go! 🙂
       .
       And preparing other documents to do with the event:
       https://www.bristolmuseums.org.uk/bristol-museum-and-art-gallery/whats-on/haiku-the-one-breath-poetry/
       .
       Although one deadline has gone, if you haven’t already, we have the second deadline of Sunday 8th September 2019 for Opportunities for Poets:
       https://www.callofthepage.org/events/haiku-at-bristol-museum/
       .
       .
       Please be gentle with Craig, I only know too well with hundreds of poems still coming in, that it’s a heck of a task for one person, let alone two (I have Karen). 🙂
       .
       warm regards,
       Alan

       1. thanks for invite info. Alan…i will do my best.
          yes, i will be easy on him….if he can come to the surface….
          i am concerned if he is affected by Dorian…it might be headed close to where he lives.

          Sounds like you have your Nippon plate full! Alan. all good things.

       2. I appreciated the opportunity to learn more about Japanese art when this was first posted on the forum. Beautiful, timeless, and interesting. Thank you for sharing.

          1. Thank you!
             .
             We held the physical side of the event last night, and it was amazing. A wide range of people, age and background, many not writers, but caught up in the buzz of this extraordinary poetry called haiku. 🙂
             .
             A few photos!
             Karen Garvey, the Bristol Museum(s) Events Officer put this up in real time last night:
             https://twitter.com/bristolmuseum
             .
             .

27. Hi Craig
    …
    are you still around?
    or did you have to vacate
    due to Dorian…..

    ambiguity
    you told me you received my poem
    but it’s not here

    what’s up
    what not
    what’s what

28. I was surprised how common this plant is. Strange how when brought to mind or a name pops up. You say ah, that’s it’s name.
    Congratulations Karen. X

29. Before I delve into the incredible work displayed here, I’d like to say my wife Karen Hoy is the Per Diem haiku today!
    .
    .
    a wisp of day moon
    the stand-out blue
    of Viper’s Bugloss
    .
    – Karen Hoy
    .
    .
    The flower is called this and other names like ‘snake flower’ and ‘blue devil’ and can bite but is beloved by insects! 🙂
    .
    Perhaps it’s either an ambiguous or ambivalent plant? 🙂

    1. i noticed that…..quite interesting Karen!

    2. Congratulations Karen! Very intriguing!

    3. Here in the Balkans, Viper’s Bugloss, the dried flower, is sometimes sewn into the clothes of school children (probably by grandmothers) to ward off evil and witchcraft. Macedonian children have just returned to school (like elsewhere) and there was evidence of this herb being sold in our local market.
       Who knows?!
       Personally I do not like the negative association with snakes.

       1. Thanks Ingrid, I’ll add this to the notes I have on the haiku.
          .
          Ah, yes, ever since a snake or serpent was blamed in various religious writings, we’ve been unfair. I never had problems with the repeat attack snakes of Queensland, Australia, and that was despite nearly tripping over one. Even during the breeding season they were not aggressive. Humans give everything a bad name, it seems, except ourselves. 🙂

    4. Woohoo! well done, Karen! 😉

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