authorial intrusion vs ambiguity

[Laura Sherman]

I've been reading the comments on the board and have been intrigued by the concept of "authorial intrusion."  This is a new concept for me.

I have also enjoyed the threads on ambiguity. 

However these two concepts seem to be, perhaps, in conflict.  If you aren't putting your stamp on the haiku, then there must be shades of ambiguity.  Or am I missing something?

One point, that I have been tossing around, is whether to take ownership in a poem.  For instance should I use "an infant" or "my infant" in a haiku such as:

the hushed breaths
of an infant
spring breeze

(I'm still working on this haiku)

Would it be considered "authorial intrusion" to use "my infant"?

Thanks!

[Mark Harris]

Hi Laura,

Let's looks at your ideas for poems and one other:

the hushed breaths
of my infant
spring breeze

the hushed breaths
of an infant
spring breeze

her hushed breaths
spring breeze

Although these examples illustrate degrees of specificity more than ambiguity, imo, the implied meanings vary considerably. If the first is closest to your intended meaning, I think you should go with that.

[cat]

Hello, Laura,

Although there are schools of thought that one shouldn't mention the first-person personal pronoun or its variations (I, me, my, mine, myself) in haiku, that is not what is meant by "author intrusion".

Author intrusion occurs when the poet puts him/herself between the reader and the poem -- telling the reader what to think, how to feel, how to react.  In fiction (which is where I come from) it's called "authorial judgment" and that may be a clearer way to think about it.  For instance -- if I were to write a haiku using "beautiful sunset" as the fragment, all I have conveyed to you is, "I found this sunset beautiful and you should find it beautiful, too."  I haven't told you one darned thing about the sunset that you can actually use to experience the poem.  There are other forms of author intrusion, too, but that's a very basic starting point for thinking about it.

A rule of thumb might be:  If you find yourself trying to tell your reader what you think instead of what you experienced, you might be headed for author intrusion.  But like all rules, it isn't applicable 100% of the time.

Hope this helps a bit.

cat

[Lorin]

Hi Laura,
             re 'authorial intrusion', or 'the writer's thumb on the scales' or 'telling the reader what to feel, think etc', your

the hushed breaths
of my infant
spring breeze

...isn't any of these, but

the hushed breaths
of my infant-
thank God she's asleep!

or

the hushed breaths
of my infant-
what a peaceful scene

or

the hushed breaths
of my infant-
isn't she pretty?

...or the like, would be.

:)

- Lorin

[Don Baird]

A great thread ... thanks for the insights and good reading.

Don

[Laura Sherman]

Hi, Mark!  I'm curious about the last example, as that seems to be an example of ambiguity.  I would think this would be an intimate scene between lovers, rather than a child's breath, but it really could be either.  It does seem that as you simplify, you do tend to leave your haiku open to interpretation.  Which of these do you prefer?

Thank you, Cat, for clarifying!  That helps a lot.  I've heard that one should avoid "my", but I don't completely understand.  Someone explained that it is harder for the reader to get involved, but then it doesn't seem as personal (or as true).

What is your viewpoint on that?  In this case I prefer the "my," but perhaps that is selfish of me (an odd though, isn't it?).

Lorin, what great examples!  Thank you for these.  I like your explanation of, "the writer's thumb on the scales," too.

I'm still struggling a bit with how to show my experience without intruding on the scene, but this discussion has helped a lot!

[Mark Harris]

"Hi, Mark!  I'm curious about the last example, as that seems to be an example of ambiguity.  I would think this would be an intimate scene between lovers, rather than a child's breath, but it really could be either.  It does seem that as you simplify, you do tend to leave your haiku open to interpretation.  Which of these do you prefer?" --Laura Sherman

Hi Laura,

That last hypothetical example (which I prefer the least) was intended as a logical extension of decreasing specificity, of which ambiguity is sometimes a byproduct. I think most people would share your interpretation of it, and that's my point: the choice of meanings is not as balanced as you suggest. A lover's breath, or a child's...I agree it could believably be the former, but not the latter. Or rather, more believably the former, and so the latter, if that is your preferred meaning, is not viable.

[Mark Harris]

I feel obliged to add that when I write "more believably the former" I'm anticipating certain shared cultural and literary assumptions

slippery terrain that only readers (including future readers if we are so favored) can map, and even then not with certainty

Ambiguity anyone? :)

m

[AlanSummers]

Dear Mark, and other contributors,

I'll be working on an essay and exercise on ambiguity, and where its dynamics can occur and enliven haiku for an American poetry organisation course I've been asked to run in 2013.

I would love to see more examples of ambiguity in haiku posted here.

kindest regards,

Alan

I feel obliged to add that when I write "more believably the former" I'm anticipating certain shared cultural and literary assumptions

slippery terrain that only readers (including future readers if we are so favored) can map, and even then not with certainty

Ambiguity anyone? :)

m

[AlanSummers]

It would be great to see some examples here.  My essay is now to become part of a forthcoming book called Writing Poetry the haiku way.

Look forward to examples of haiku.

warm regards,

Alan

[onecloud]

Alan,

by,  ..."exercise on ambiguity,"...
do you want examples where the poet is not present in the verse?

...a tree falling with out a witness? an omnipresent voice? 

It would be great to see some examples here.  My essay is now to become part of a forthcoming book called Writing Poetry the haiku way.

Look forward to examples of haiku.

warm regards,

Alan

regards,
marty :)

[AlanSummers]

Ambiguity: A word or phrase that can mean more than one thing, even in its context. Poets often search out such words to add richness to their work. Often, one meaning seems quite readily apparent, but other, deeper and darker meanings, await those who contemplate the poem.

Example: Robert Frost's 'The Subverted Flower'
http://home.comcast.net/~cnsatter/Poetry/thesubvertedflower.html


Alan Summers re Ambiguity:

We can push the verse further using one of the key core characteristics of haiku, which makes it survive in this extreme brevity of a whole poem, and that is the taking out of some information as text, and trusting the reader to find that information within the absence of visible information.  It's the white text on white paper, something probably viewed with horror by poets of longer poetry.

There is a gap in-between the two parts of haiku created by a juxtaposition of images, sometimes closely related, sometimes almost too far apart in logical meaning. 

Juxtaposition in haiku can be two images moving in parallel, making the reader stimulate their own poetic creativity.

The simplicity of haiku can paradoxically hold profound meaning through disparate mundane concrete real images, seemingly remunerated as connections with themselves,  and us, forcing us to co-exist in a shared environment.

These extracts are from a much longer piece on ambiguity that's going into the book.

warm regards,

Alan

Alan,

by,  ..."exercise on ambiguity,"...
do you want examples where the poet is not present in the verse?

...a tree falling with out a witness? an omnipresent voice? 

It would be great to see some examples here.  My essay is now to become part of a forthcoming book called Writing Poetry the haiku way.

Look forward to examples of haiku.

warm regards,

Alan

regards,
marty :)