How important is universal understanding?

[Mojave]

Gael's poem about Earthshine made me want to ask this question. How important is universal understanding when it comes to writing haiku? I hope that makes sense. What I mean is, there are bound to be people who wont understand certain references in your writing. How important is it to make your haiku understandable to most people? Or is it important? Does the writer just need to be sure be clear in what they are saying, using common English as I have read, and not worry about whether or not the reader will get all the references or not?

Sorry if that is a dumb question, but I really dont know so I had to ask.  :)

Thanks all!

[Don Baird]

I try to write my haiku to be accessible to as many folks as possible.  However, with the multitude of differing cultures, we will all experience reading and writing haiku that are not easily understood.  I think one key is:  don't write them intentionally to be obscure to a certain culture.  If there is obscurity, let it be incidental and not on purpose.  The reader, after all, is also your audience.

Just a short version of my two cents.

:)

[Mojave]

Thank you so, so much PGMB!!! Your two cents are gold to me! So, try not to be obscure culturally. Understood. What about scientifically? Like in the case of Gaels haiku, she used the earthshine. It is a common term but it isnt one that most people would know about. I know about it because Im an APOD freak, but I dont know that most people know about it. Do you think its ok to use a term like this, or should one try another way of showing what they saw that is more common place?

Thank you again!

[Gabi Greve]

I try to promote "haiku in context" on an international level.
In that way you can write your haiku simple and "not a riddle" in your own culture, but give a clue to readers from other parts of the world.
This is not in the way of haibun, but additional information, links, photos, whatever it takes to make your point.
This is the basic idea behind the World Kigo Database, when it started off with regional kigo, expanding to regional "tocpic, keywords" ... etc.
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/

When translating the Japanese haiku, I often have to add long explanations for example of regional food, festivals, clothing etc. and the many things from the Edo period (Issa, Basho) which  provide even the Japanese with a time slip into the "deep past" .

For example for festivals, rituals and so on, there are "Japanese haiku in context" here:
http://wkdfestivalsaijiki.blogspot.com/

For haiku to be a simple "stand alone", you are very limited to basic common conditions, like the bees and the butterflies ... but for me it is important to show your local culture within your haiku.

Gabi from Japan
.

[Don Baird]

I think you have to write the truth.  If that creates a haiku that is more local, then that seems fine to me (not that I'm any judge, etc.)  It's important to write haiku that reflect your immediate surroundings ... wherever you are at the moment.  Haiku written with that mindset will not always be accessible to everyone world wide.  But, someone of your area will "get" it right away.

I think it is a situation of intent.  If you intend to use wordplay that confuses the reader it is a lesser poem (and a lesser intention).  If it happens simply because that is where you are and that is what you saw, then the poem has integrity ... even if there are some folks who do not immeditately understand it.

And, I agree with Gabi's wonderful chat with you.  Excellent thoughts.

:)

[Gael Bage]

That's what I love about this place, my mistake but we all learn from it and that is what life is all about!
I am not a science buff, but when I observe something i want to understand it and the net is wonderful for finding out about stuff. There was no intention to mislead, just recording a moment. However I thought you might like to see my first revision attempt with the haiku in question, we hear owls most nights here, there are tawny, barn and little owls. As usual good advice from Don and Gabi, thank you.
Hoping this makes it more universal.

revised

a barn owl's screech --
old moon's ghostly shape
in a bright sliver

original

a sliver of moon
earthshine reflecting 
a ghostly glow

[AlanSummers]

All good points! ;-)

I had the same issue early on with my subsong haiku, and also my holding/hoverflies haiku.

I don't think we should shy away, or veer away, from haiku that contain words that aren't easily recognisable.

I didn't mind earthshine as a word, although I had forgotten this term.  My only comment was that the moon was indirectly referenced strongly twice alongside moon being directly written in the first line.

earthshine weblinks: http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1239&bih=577&q=earthshine&btnG=Google+Search

Once the earthshine haiku has been done, and once it has been published, I'd love it in the Moon haiku topic in Share Haiku. ;-)

all my best,

Alan

p.s.

Thanks for earthshine, I'm going to read up on it. ;-)

[Mojave]

Thank you all so much!!! What I am taking away from this is that it is ok to use what you know as long as you are being honest. Using what you know will make your haiku regional, most likely, because we speak in the way most people do in our communities and that its ok if everybody doesnt understand. Makes perfect sense to me. Thank you again!

Gael, your use of the word Old, is that because the moon is old, or is that referring to the cycle of the moon, was and wane? I like the revision! I see owls out here myself and I think most people know that owls fly at night so for me it sets the place and time right away and then the moon follows. Very lovely.

[Lorin]

Hi Mojave,
               There's no need to 'dumb down' your haiku, no need to try to ensure that everyone in the wide world will 'get' it. But the words need to be part of the language and accessibly so.  'Earthshine' is a common term that we could expect most English-speaking adults to be acquainted with (even though we might not hear it spoken everyday) and it's also a word easily found in dictionaries. 

There have, in the past, been instances of a certain cultural insularity in EL haiku where certain  regional references have been deemed unacceptable by some editors because they would be "unfamiliar to our readers", but I think that kind of paternalism is becoming rare now and is on the decrease this century, when the internet has given so many people quick & easy access to all kinds of information.

Most of the people in the English-speaking world understand these days that it depends on which region you happen to be in whether April is mid-Spring among the apple blossoms or mid-Autumn among the yellowing leaves or the welcome dry season among the mango trees. But Easter is Easter and the Easter Bunny brings chocolate eggs on the same Easter Sunday the wide world around.  8)

In EL haiku, every world region is 'regional' and there is no particular region that's 'central'. All's relative.

- Lorin

[Mojave]

Thank you so much for the wonderful feedback Lorin! .

[Gael Bage]

Hi Mojave, in answer to your question old refers to a full moon, it's still there but it's in darkness we only see moonshine when the moon is the tiniest sliver brand new, when that moonlight gets bigger moonshine outshines earthshine.  :)
Another answer to your original question is that not knowing all the cultural referances can be intriguing, I hate to remain ignorant on a matter and am curious enough to look it up, learning about other cultures can be fun and enriching.

[Don Baird]

Hey Erin,

Possibly, too, you could do some research.  I'd suggest buying one of the books about Masaoka Shiki who is the Japanese poet that popularized haiku (and named it).  Reading his story is extremely helpful for a beginner (though not all folks agree).  I enjoyed studying his life, his thoughts and his poetry.  It was interesting how he documented his entire life through haiku while he was room and then bed confined.

Others to study are Buson and Issa ... possibly Basho.  There are so many opinions today ... but, you know me ... I'm one to look at history to see how we got here today.  That mind set will really help you understand today's haiku environment as well as assists you in eventually chosing your own haiku voice and style.

Take care and have a great weekend!

:)

[AlanSummers]

I agree with Don, there's a need to read Shiki, and i always stock up on new books about Basho, must have about twenty or more books, which barely touches the surface as most of them are in English. ;-)

Alan

[cat]

Come on, boys!

You can't talk about the should-read masters and leave out my main gal, Chiyo-Ni.

Patricia Donegan's landmark Chiyo-Ni: Woman Haiku Master is out of print and so rare used copies go for close to $100.  But you can find her here:

http://thegreenleaf.co.uk/hp/women/c/chiyo/00haiku.htm

I have another, more comprehensive site bookmarked on my MacBook, but it's at school and I'm not, so I'll try to remember to add it Monday.  I can't find it today with Google.

Here's a review of the book, with some useful info:

http://www.2hweb.net/wjhigginson/Reviews/Chiyo.html

and another:

http://simplyhaiku.com/SHv2n3/reprints/Patricia_Donegan.html

Check 'em out!

cat

[AlanSummers]

I like Chiyo-ni's work, and I have the book by Patricia Donegan and Yoshie Ishibashi, but would love another book with different translations. 

The book can be had at $77 plus at the moment: http://www.amazon.com/Chiyo-ni-Woman-Master-Patricia-Donegan/dp/0804820538

wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiyo-ni

Two of my preferred books for female writers (other than the new anthology) are Far from the Field and A Rainy Season.

They are both must have books and not purely because they are all female books but so important.

Alan