a question for the mentors

[josie hibbing]

Hi everyone! I would like to ask this question to the mentors and haiku experts: When you were starting to write haiku, did you have a period in your life as a haiku writer that you get frustrated?

I ask this question because I'm very new to haiku. At first I thought that haiku is so simple. What can be hard about a short, 3 line poem with 17 syllables (at the most)? The more I study about haiku, the more I find it more complicated. I find haiku a lot more difficult than free-verse poetry but still I like it.

I want to thank you, mentors, for all the help you offered to me and to all the amateur writers. You've been of great service to us. Blessings to you all!

Josie

[Gabi Greve]

.

Frustrated ... never !

For me haiku is a way to learn about Japanese culture, and even after more than 20 years into my haiku life, there are new things to discover, new roads to walk, new vocabulary to learn ...
I like this never-ending story !
I like to be a life-long student !

Because it is so short, haiku is so vast in its many dimensions.
Because it is so short (and formal poetry in Japan), it is more difficult than free verse.
Learning the form is a challenge that needs time.


In your phase of frustration, I would advise you to sit back and just collect

haiku no tane, the seeds of haiku.

Try to get out with a notebook and pencil in hand.
Make notes about all the big and small things that come your way.
Make the notes fit into two lines, either

long / short
or
short / long

More is here
http://happyhaiku.blogspot.com/2004/01/teaching-children.html

Gabi

World Kigo Database
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.com/

.

[AlanSummers]

Hi Josie,

I probably got frustrated in the early days once or twice because I wanted any old attempt at haiku writing to be automatically published.  Thank goodness editors didn't accept work that wasn't good enough on any level, otherwise it would still be around to haunt me. ;-)

Gabi mentions the aspects of haiku that interest her, and the benefits, and there will be different benefits for different people.

There are many levels to haiku as you've already guessed. ;-)

If you have a desire to improve your writing skills (across the board, not just haiku) then haiku is a great way to improve them.  

If you get into a publishing mania, and want everything you write to be published, it will become uncomfortable, and frustrating.

Until the basics of haiku are as natural to a person as the scales are to a musician, it will be difficult to achieve certain goals.

Learn the basics inside out by reading thousands of haiku, both online, and getting at least a few good standard books (Haiku Handbook and one other e.g. The New Haiku <Snapshot Press> or Haiku: A Poet's Guide <Lee Gurga>; anthologies and collections).

BOOKS

Try and get your local independent bookstore (or a chain if you must) order decent haiku books in, not jokey doggerel ones.

Haiku Handbook (and anything else by Bill Higginson):
http://www.amazon.com/Haiku-Handbook-25th-Anniversary-Appreciate/dp/4770031130/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1

The New Haiku
http://www.snapshotpress.co.uk/books/the_new_haiku.htm

Haiku: A Poet's Guide:
http://www.modernhaiku.org/mhbooks/gurgaHPG2003.html

When I started, which was in Australia (before an Australian haiku movement) I subscribed to Modern Haiku (USA) and Frogpond (Haiku Society of America); Azami (Japan); Haiku Quarterly (U.K.); Bare Bones (U.K.); Vrabac (Croatia); and Albatross (Romania).

I can't remember your country as it doesn't say on your profile, but it's good to join a haiku group or society where you live as well.

I learnt for five years solid before I gave my first workshop. I worked on my craft everyday, and when I was in Australia, that would be from 5am - 7am before voluntary landcare, and then every evening.

Even though I didn't have lots of disposable income I bought books and magazines and read very widely.

I've probably read over a quarter of a million haiku since 1993, and a writer needs to read as much as to write.

Just keep a notebook (or more) so there's always one to hand, plus several pens.  Make notes, draft up lines of haiku, and be happy to take weeks or months on some of the potential haiku.

THE HAIKU BANK
In time you will have so many proto-haiku in your bank of work, that at some point you will have at least half a dozen ready to consider sending off to a good publication.  If you have a hundred or more in your "haiku bank" there will always be around half a dozen that are nearly ready and just need one final series of revision, and then they can go off.

If you rush things you will have proto-haiku spread around the internet that you'd rather not be there, a year from now. ;-)

Enjoy the challenges and be relieved that it isn't another thing that you can conquer either with cash (shopping) or pressure (either on yourself or on someone else).

It's very unWestern not to want to conquer something, but the discipline will reward you longterm.  I've been on this "haiku path" since 1993 and it has changed my life for the better.

Make full use of Learning About Haiku - Helpful Links:
http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/new-to-haiku-free-discussion/learning-about-haiku-helpful-links-286/

Alan

[AlanSummers]

For anyone new, just digest what Gabi says:

.
Frustrated ... never !

For me haiku is a way to learn about Japanese culture, and even after more than 20 years into my haiku life, there are new things to discover, new roads to walk, new vocabulary to learn ...
I like this never-ending story !
I like to be a life-long student !

Because it is so short, haiku is so vast in its many dimensions.
Because it is so short (and formal poetry in Japan), it is more difficult than free verse.
Learning the form is a challenge that needs time.

In your phase of frustration, I would advise you to sit back and just collect

Gabi
.

One of the best things about haiku is being a life-long student, because it keeps you fresh and on your toes.
It also exercises both the right and left sides of the brain, and keeps you young. ;-)

Alan

[chibi575]

Hi Josie,

You've just seen comments from two people I admire and respect in the short poem community.  I recommend you give yourself some time to digest their advise.  It is an excellent guide and start.

As for me, I'm going to do so myself.

Yours in poetry...

Ciao... chibi

[Lorin]

Hi everyone! I would like to ask this question to the mentors and haiku experts: When you were starting to write haiku, did you have a period in your life as a haiku writer that you get frustrated?

I ask this question because I'm very new to haiku. At first I thought that haiku is so simple. What can be hard about a short, 3 line poem with 17 syllables (at the most)? The more I study about haiku, the more I find it more complicated. I find haiku a lot more difficult than free-verse poetry but still I like it.

I want to thank you, mentors, for all the help you offered to me and to all the amateur writers. You've been of great service to us. Blessings to you all!

Josie

Hi Josie,
            Unlike those who never get frustrated with themselves, haiku, or anything else, I often do, so join the club, you're not alone & there are more of us than it might at first seem  8)

Sometimes, with me, its a tug-of-war between frustration and fascination. Sometimes it's all alive and sometimes it all goes flat. In that way haiku is no different to any other kind of poetry, or even fiction writing, from what I hear from fiction writers. It doesn't matter. If you feel overwhelmed or frustrated, let the whole thing go and do something else for a while.

Yes, read the books recommended, read haiku and find those that appeal to you, listen to what others have to say. But "follow your bliss", as Joseph Campbell used to say. It's your life and I'd venture to say that there are as many 'haiku paths' as there are people writing haiku. Many of these people are, like you and me, amateurs. But then, T.S. Eliot was an amateur poet, too.  :D

- Lorin

[AlanSummers]

And most people are amateur at being human beings. ;-)

Of course all writers get frustration.  One of the most highly paid writers ever (HC Andersen) was frustrated, as was Dickens who envied HC Andersen spinning off instant novellas in a week.

But frustration can be used as a positive tool whether you are a hobbyist or a professional, so use it just like a need to get money in the bank. ;-)

Alan

[John McManus]

Hi Josie, I can't give you any better advice than what you have already received.

All I can say is that if you find haiku or any other form of poetry that appeals to you on a personal level, you should contemplate what it is that you admire about it in particular? Figure out what aspects intrigue you, if you do this Josie you can perhaps understand better how to express yourself whether it be through haiku or any other form you decide to persue.

All the best, John.     

[josie hibbing]

Hi Gabi! Thank you for your response.

I admire you for not feeling any frustration with your haiku-writing. I hope I did not give you the wrong impression about my "frustrations" with writing haiku. I love haiku and I want to be a good writer but it doesn't come easy to me, so sometimes I get frustrated.

Thank you for your advise of making notes on big and small things that come my way. There is one thing though that I did not quite understand-- the part when you said "Make the notes fit into two lines".

I will check the links you suggested. Thank you again for the mentoring.

Josie :)

[Gabi Greve]

Dear Josie,
it is OK to be frustrated with oneself once in a while, but never with haiku  ;D

the two lines are often called "phrase" in ELH.
The part that goes in the one line left open is the kigo (when teaching toriawase (combining two thoughts)), check the link please.

I wish you all the best on your Haiku Way, make it your way of life !

Gabi

[josie hibbing]

Hi Alan! I had a nice long reply written for you just a minute ago, but I pushed a wrong button and it disappeared. I'm frustrated with my little computer knowledge.  ;) Anyway, thank you for imparting your knowledge and sharing your experiences.

My frustration is not directly to haiku itself-- it is more on me and all the circumstances of my life. I desire to be a good haiku writer but it takes hard work. I'll just keep at it and do what I can do. By the way, I finally got my first haiku handbook! I read quite a few pages of it already.

I'll try to enjoy the challenges and do my best :)

Josie

[josie hibbing]

Hi Chibi! I'll certainly give some time to digest the different pieces of advice. I think it's like raising children-- you find all kinds of advice and you find out not all of them fit to your situation. It is good to get different kinds of advice because we have options to choose from.

Thank you for your input. Have a nice day!

Josie

[josie hibbing]

Hello Lorin! I'm glad to know I'm not alone! ;) My frustration to haiku is like  loving someone. Sometimes you get frustrated to the one you love, but still you love him. The first thing that attracted me to haiku is its appearance-- short and beautiful imagery. When I was first introduced to it, I was so excited, I want to write right away because it looks so easy. Then I came to know the rules and I realize it is not easy. But the more I know, the more I get attracted to it. One cause of my frustration is I want so badly to write beautiful haiku. I have a lesson to learn that if I love haiku I will not give up on it.

Like you said, for you haiku is a tug-of-war between frustration and fascination. I feel the same way. Thank you so much for all your help. :)

Josie

[josie hibbing]

Hi John!

Haiku appeals to me in so many ways. One aspect that intrigues me a lot is the rule "show not tell". I have a few haiku that I posted to workshop that has this problem. I know this rule but still I don't know how to apply it in all my haiku. This is one reason I get frustrated but I must not give up.

I really appreciate your advice. Thank you!

Josie

[cat]

Hello, Josie,

There is definitely a learning curve to "show, don't tell", but maybe this will be helpful.

After you've written a draft, look at each line of your haiku and ask yourself if it's something that can be perceived by the five senses -- "Can I see it?"  "Can I hear it?" and so on.  If so, there's a good chance that you're showing us what you experienced.  If not, there's a good chance you're telling us an idea or a reaction.  It's not a foolproof strategy, but it will help.  And if you find you've written a reaction, your next question would be, "What did I see/hear/etc that made me react that way?"  And there will be the image you need to show your readers.

Hope this helps.

cat