edited haiku

[josie hibbing]

Hi! I have a question about my edited haiku. A friend of mine who is a published haiku writer edited a bunch of my haiku and he would like me to send them to a magazine that publish haiku for possible publications. Can I send his versions and claim them as mine? Is this kind of cheating? I would appreciate some answers. Thank you very much.

[AlanSummers]

Hi Josie

It should come under tensaku.  Without seeing the originals and the edited versions it's hard to comment, but usually, and traditionally, they are still your haiku.

It's like you still have intellectual property because the original idea is your's, and it's just the idea being further developed.

I'm quite happy if you message me privately about this.

Alan

[cat]

Hello, Josie,

I'm getting a message that a reply was posted as I was typing this.  I'm going to go ahead and post anyway, and if it's a duplication (or contradictory), oh well, it is what it is.

My reply to your question:

Ultimately, it comes down to a couple of things.

First, do you feel the haiku still honor your intentions?  That is, in editing, does your original moment continue to be present?  If your intentions and your moment are still there, the haiku is still yours.

Second, what is your comfort level?  That varies with individual authors.  If you strongly feel it is "cheating", as opposed to being confused about whether it is or not, then you might not want to submit those poems.

The fact that your friend is an experienced poet and gave you the advice to submit tells me that it's okay in this situation for you to do so.  It's like here in the forum -- you post, we offer suggestions which are our gifts to you to use as you see fit, including making the decision to incorporate some or all of them into your haiku (which is what makes them your own).  We have all -- are all, if we are actively workshopping our haiku -- been the beneficiaries of the acute eyes and ears and good advice of others, and suggestions are always offered in the spirit that they will belong to the person whose work is being workshopped, not the person who makes the suggestion.

Josie, if I were in your shoes, I would be happy to have a friend who can help me with my work, and I would definitely consider sending those poems out.

Hope this helps.

cat

[Lorin]

Hi Josie,
             Cat has said what I would've. The circumstances are clear. It's what happens in a workshopping forum and it's what happens in eg. university classrooms or tutorial groups. Go ahead and submit your haiku to journals, and also try several journals over a period of time (don't submit the same haiku to more than one journal at a time, though. Wait for notice of acceptance/non-acceptance, then you're free to submit the unaccepted haiku elsewhere)

Later, you'll be more confidant in making suggestions for revision of others' haiku, so what goes around comes around and it all balances out in the end.

I do understand the feelings behind your question, though. An editor suggested a change in one of mine, years ago now, and I had to be reassured that the haiku was still legitimately mine.

- Lorin

[josie hibbing]

Hi Alan! Thanks for the enlightenment.
By the way, what is tensaku. Since I joined haiku groups, I have encountered many Japanese terms and I assume they are forms of Japanese poetry. I only know about haiku and haibun.
Thank you for your message that came in my email. Have a nice day, Alan! :)

Josie

[josie hibbing]

Hello Cat! I thank you for your reply. Your words are very helpful.
My edited haiku still honor my intention and the writer that helped me only changed a few things and shortened some lines of my original haiku. I feel so lucky to have someone help me with my haiku.
Thanks again for your help and have a nice day!

Josie

[josie hibbing]

Hi Lorin! Thank you for your response. I appreciate your tips in submitting haiku to journals. I have not done it yet. I'll try submitting soon. I always have this feeling that my haiku are not good enough that's why I have not sent any to any publications.
Thanks again.

Josie ;)

[AlanSummers]

Hi Josie,

Tensaku is basically where a Japanese haiku expert aka master edits her or his students' work; whether slightly or drastically, it remains the work of the student.

For a good book on forms etc... you will always appreciate a copy of  Bill's Haiku Handbook, ably co-written by Penny Harter: http://www.amazon.com/Haiku-Handbook--25th-Anniversary-Appreciate/dp/4770031130/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295948627&sr=1-1

all my best,

Alan

[cat]

Hello again, Josie,

I always have this feeling that my haiku are not good enough that's why I have not sent any to any publications.

Some good effects of starting to submit are:
1.  You might be pleasantly surprised -- an editor likes some of them and accepts them!
2.  You might get some helpful feedback on the ones an editor declines -- but in your cover letter you should say something like, "Feedback welcome" so the editor knows he/she wouldn't be wasting time by providing it.
3.  You might get an invitation to submit something else, the "not these ones, but what else do you have?" response.  Value editors who ask to see more of your work.  They're busy enough already, so it's a sign your haiku are striking a chord.  And always follow up and send something else as soon as you have something worthy.

The only bad effect is that an editor will say "no" to the entire submission.  It happens to all of us.  (The epidermis of a rhinoceros is vital in the writing game.)

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.  Since your friend says you're ready, send them out!

cat

[josie hibbing]

Hi Alan and Cat! I appreciate all the help. Bless your kind hearts!

Josie