The Truth in Haiku - How necessary is it?

[Edward Zuk]

This is a fascinating discussion, and I have been enjoying reading the various replies. 

My own work is split nearly in half between writing from my experience and writing from my imagination.  One haiku that I've received some comment on is the following, probably because it has appeared online:

      An empty beach . . .
the moon lights a pathway
           to itself

It is completely imaginary.  I have never been on an empty beach at night (and, before I wrote it, I had never been on a beach at night).  I wrote it when I was feeling depressed and wanted to express a longing to escape the troubles of the world.

I later found that a friend of mine had quoted this haiku in a letter to show how someone could transcend their feelings (!) through an appreciation of natural beauty.  She told me that she liked the poem because of its transcendence.  I didn't have the heart to contradict her.  But she was surprised when I told her that it wasn't written with the scene before me.

And because no one has quoted it yet, here is Sir Philip Sidney's statement on truth in poetry:  "Now, for the poet, he nothing affirms, and therefore never lieth.  For, as I take it, to lie is to affirm that to be true which is false."

[chibi575]

... so the short answer to your initial question is NO ...

haiku ... a short answer of know

"... and that's the truth ... plthplthplth" as one of Lily Tomln's child-characters, Edith Ann says

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJMKupYF14I&feature=related

[Don Baird]

How in the heck did you find that?   ::)

:)

Don

[nhyde]

When I read poetry, I care about the artistic truth not the literal one, per se. Transcendence.

Edward Zuk? Do I know you? If not, you share the name of a wonderful man and old family friend, so forgive me. The name has good memories. I love the haiku and explanation you posted.

Cheers,
Nicole

[AlanSummers]

Sounds like a good article could come from you Nicole on this.

What do you personally mean by artistic truth, and it being better than literal truth (put in a well written piece of literature)?

Could you lend some examples of both?

Maybe a few of us should do that, I'd be really interested.

In Presence magazine, September 2010 issue, there was a letter mentioning they'd rather not read the type of haiku that are in Wing Beats: British Birds in Haiku.

I'm biased as I'm in it, but it's edited by one of the top international haiku writers (John Barlow) and has some great poets in there including Martin Lucas, and many many more.

Wing Beats weblink: http://www.wingbeats.co.uk

It's a fantastic book, just read the comments and a few of the haiku.

Alan

[nhyde]

Alan, "an article"? Oh dear, no. I am not a scholar. Truly, I am a mediocre occasional writer of tiny poems, yet am an avid reader (devourer?) of good short poetry. The level of analysis and discourse here is wonderful, but I have little to offer in return except my enthusiasm (which makes my participation on a discussion board almost useless).  ;)

As to the bird book -- I'd love to get my husband one of those! He also loves and writes haiku but his day job is as an oil painter who often paints birds.

Artistic versus literal truth. Well, I mean to say how a poem resonates within me -- does it move me? Has it transcended from the page into art or tickle a personal truth somehow? I don't know that I am capable of articulating it any better than that - forgive me.

[AlanSummers]

It's a good start. ;-)

So your husband is also a painter?

I bet an exhibition showing both your works would be amazing.  As you know I'm a big fan of your work.

Could you give us a weblink to your husband's work (and your's for the benefit of others here)?

I'm now going to tell you off right royally!!!!

Never call yourself mediocre, as you are far from that.  Even a beginner, which you are not, should never say that, job done I hope! ;-)

I can't recommend Wing Beats: British Birds in Haiku highly enough.  The production values are out of this world and match the quality of the poems: http://www.wingbeats.co.uk

Alan

[nhyde]

Aw shucks, you are too kind, Alan. But, I know my limits.



Hubs: http://weshyde.com
Mine: http://nicolehyde.com



Just like our tastes in poetry, my husband's art is more traditional and mine, not as much. LOL

[cat]

Hello, Nicole,

Thank you for posting your website.  I enjoyed looking at your paintings.  (Haven't had time to check out your hubby's yet, but I will.)  I don't know anything about art, but I know what touches me, and your paintings do.  So ethereal and beautiful.

Have you tried haiga yet?  You would be a natural.

cat

[AlanSummers]

Listen to Cat! ;-)

Cat beat me to posting so here's what I said:

Wow, I knew you were good!  But I hadn't come across your husband's work before.

I modified your post so the links are now live. ;-)

Two great styles, and I have to say, although different, a joint exhibition would be something.

I've been involved in art exhibitions in the past so I am not just saying that.

I'll be properly visiting your husband's, and enjoying your artwork again too.

Please don't think you know your limits, because I've taught or interacted with, maybe ten thousand people or more (four thousand alone in the six month renga residency in Hull, U.K.) over the last 15 years.

I didn't jump straight into pretending I could teach haiku for some considerable time.  I went through an apprenticeship for about five years before I felt I should run my own workshops.

It all takes time, but no one gave up on me when I first started, and no one is going to give up on you either.

It's good to have a healthy attitude, up to a point, but only up to a point. ;-)

Alan

[nhyde]

Hi Cat, nice to meet you.  :) Thanks for the kind words about my art. As to haiga, I've done a few of them and enjoyed the process greatly. Is there a particular place to discuss that here and where can I see some of yours?

[cat]

Hello, Nicole,

I just started doing haiga about a month ago, so there aren't many examples of my work out there.  I do photo-haiga because I don't have the gift of drawing and painting (not sure I have the gift of photography, either, when you get right down to it).

I did get my courage up and submit one of my early haiga to Kuniharu san at the World Haiku Association Haiga Contest.  I thought I might get some feedback, and I did.  The contest runs every month and the deadline is the 20th.  He awards points (I'm not sure what the scale is) and ones that get enough points are posted on the website.  Here is the link to January's results.  You can find mine under "Catherine J.S. Lee".  There is also a link to the submission process, if you're interested.

http://fitart.cs.land.to/84TH/haiga84.htm

I wish there was a haiga forum here at THF. It would be great to get some feedback.

cat