Is Haiku Poetry?

[John Carley]

'Dain Direach', eh Colin - 'fixed measure'? Sounds a bit like 'teikei' to me: strict form. In Japanese. Well, romaji anyway.

Which begs the question: which 'haiku' are we talking about? Because all the stuff about 'haiku not using metre, assonance, alliteration, onomatopoeia' - who made that up? And why?

winter melons --
so great the change
in each other's face

Best wishes, John

[snowbird a/k/a Merrill Ann Gonzales]

I read an interesting comment today: "There are physical laws that give form. But most of what you are has nothing to do with form.  Thus, the laws do not apply."   As far as I'm concerned haiku both is and is beyond poetry... but the essense of haiku is the revelation of some truth or essence that has it's own form...a form that can't be compromise without doing harm to that truth or essence.   Poetry and haiku both are often beyond form or definition.  

[JenPumpkin]

Yes, it is.

[Lynne Rees]

I tend to start with the following basic description when asked to define poetry:

Words patterned on the page to produce an effect on the reader. Or at a reading, the pace, tone of voice of the poet, the value placed on certain words and sounds, that act as a signal that it is not a piece of prose or a speech

For me, the reference to reader or audience is essential because that introduces the idea of craft, conscious decision making, which, in turn, places the writing within the realm of literature as opposed to self expression or therapy. Not that I feel there's anything wrong with either of those - we all write just for ourselves at times. 

So I'd say that haiku can be poetry if it's consciously crafted. As far as elements of craft go, perhaps that's a good topic for another thread?

[tomtrow44]

I think Haiku is poetry.  The definition of poetry has pretty much been shattered by many writers of, for lack of a better word, standard poetry.  Free verse I do not understand or appreciate.  But the tradition of writers like Carl Sanburg epitimize poetry in my opinion.  They are examples of using few words to say a lot and generally do have a lyric quality to them.  When all is said and done, though, I think one has to admit that poetry, especially Haiku, is a state of mind.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Tom

[Patricia Nolan]

Good thoughts all.  As a retired educator who still volunteers with poetry in schools and a member of Poetry West in Colorado Springs, I relate to the comments about 5-7-5 and nature.  Decades ago, that may have been a good way to teach syllables in 3rd grade.  Period.   I am doing my best to instill a deeper sense of all that haiku and all eastern poetry is and can be.  I am saddened to know some highly esteemed poets who treat haiku as a jokey little pastime.  Rather amusing, actually.

[Julie B. K.]

I think haiku is like modern art.  Some people "get it" and some people don't. 

I didn't understand haiku at all until I started writing scifaiku.  For me, that was a doorway into the form.  I think haiku is an incredibly demanding form of poetry.  Haiku requires stripping down all of the obviously explanatory and flowery words - the ones most people relate to - until you are left with bare essence of form.  Wasn't it Mark Twain who ended a letter with "I would have written I shorter letter but I didn't have enough time?"     

[merlot]

Haiku (or hokku) is the start of a poem...and suddenly one knows that the rest of the poem is not needed.

[eluckring]

"Poetry: three mismatched shoes at the entrance of a dark alley."

Charles Simic
from Our Angelic Ancestor
from the book, Dimes Store Alchemy: The Art of Joseph Cornell, 1992 Ecco Press

[moonrise]

I feel haiku is the heart of all writing.Now whether that makes it poetry or not...?

[dirk diggler]

I quite like haiku to contain a title. But i got mine rejected by a haiku magazine because they said "True haiku has no title" does it have to be so?

[cat]

Hello,

I would say yes, it has to be that way, for two reasons.  One, due to the brevity of haiku, a title would take up a disproportionate amount of space in relation to the poem.  (It would be rather like a sonnet with a 20-word title, would it not?)  And two, going without titles has become the accepted convention in contemporary haiku journals.

My question is, why do you like titles?  Are you relying on them to carry a message that isn't embedded in the haiku itself, or do you not trust your reader to "get it"? Or . . . ?

Usually, the first line of the haiku is referenced the way a title would be.  So you still have something that functions the same way in that regard.

Hope this helps!

cat

[Lynne Rees]

I quite like haiku to contain a title. But i got mine rejected by a haiku magazine because they said "True haiku has no title" does it have to be so?

I don't like rules, so I wouldn't say that haiku shouldn't have titles. And maybe single word titles that read on into the body of the haiku could work quite well... hmmm, I might give that a go : ) However writing them and publishing them are two different things - at the mercy of editors etc. But I think most editors are open to new ideas if they can see a conscious reason for the writer's decision making.

For me, a title can have a weighty presence on the page, so I'd be inclined not to title, and risk overwhelming the haiku, and use that information/idea in the haiku itself, even if that means it would be a 4 line haiku. Also, perhaps playing around with the title and the text together you might discover another form that the material is asking for: tanka, short free verse poem etc

[beagset]

The question begs more questions. Why isn't haiku popular? Does haiku stay in a corner away from the mainstream of what the culture consumes? Most haiku are mostly read/consumed by other haiku poets. For example, haiku isn't rap music. How do we make haiku more popular? Can we reach a mass audience in the West as it occurs in Japan with a whole array of kigo? glad to be here, paul

[Laura Sherman]

Paul, you bring up a very interesting point. I don't like rap music, but have wondered if there is a bridge there. Some way to marry music and haiku.

It is a challenge to bring haiku to more people, but keep its integrity in.