Run on statements and...

[Nicole Andrews]

Hi,

I would like some clarity on why this is a haiku, when it is using an image as a metaphor, ' squids/bank clerks....and using the word ' like,' and the whole,  sounding like a statement...?
Is it the translation ? Or do I see a clear space ahead where there is no such thing as a western haiku, just a short poem based on a metaphor?

                                               like squids
                                               bank clerks are fluorescent
                                               from the morning
                                   
                                                                          Kaneko Tota

Is ' the morning ' the second image/catalyst?

Regards
Nicole

I

[AlanSummers]

Hi Nicole,

re Tohta Kaneko and the squid haiku (he worked in a bank for a while) check out the discussion:
http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/2009/05/11/envoy-1-part-1/

Ignore the Fathers Day Poems comment which I've just reported as spam.

re:

Hi,

I would like some clarity on why this is a haiku, when it is using an image as a metaphor, ' squids/bank clerks....and using the word ' like,' and the whole,  sounding like a statement...?
Is it the translation ? Or do I see a clear space ahead where there is no such thing as a western haiku, just a short poem based on a metaphor?

                                               like squids
                                               bank clerks are fluorescent
                                               from the morning
                                   
                                                                          Kaneko Tota

First of all this is but one of the many versions in English from a Japanese-Language haiku.

Should haiku contain simile, which this looks like, or metaphor?  Well Tohta Kaneko was always a rebel, and witnessed the heated arguments of his father and fellow haiku poets, so he's lived and breathed haiku for other 90 years. :)

There is a huge amount of variety in Japanese haiku, not just in the late 1800s when it evolved, but throughout the 20th Century, and already in our newly born 21st century.  It's exciting, isn't it? :)

If haiku has a form, it's not a convenient paint by numbers one, thank goodness.  But it drives 'mainstream' poets mad as they can't really conquer and defeat what they perceived was its form.

Western haiku, and other haiku from outside Japan, have always gone their way, and even in Japan it happens. :)

                                               like squids
                                               bank clerks are fluorescent
                                               from the morning
                                   
                                                                          Kaneko Tota

Is ' the morning ' the second image/catalyst?

I'd say the morning commute to work is a strong image, and people in suits, including Japanese salarymen, are highly visible making their way to banks and offices, on foot, trains, and other means.

Japan has their famous fluorescent squids:
http://www.goweirdfacts.com/blue-beach.html

The seasonal reference is in place as it's March, and Kaneko is good at creating his own kigo.

I think some haiku experts who regularly write, read, and speak Japanese, understand its multi-systems of language is different, and that is reflected in their English version.

Hi,

I would like some clarity on why this is a haiku, when it is using an image as a metaphor, ' squids/bank clerks....and using the word ' like,' and the whole,  sounding like a statement...?
Is it the translation ? Or do I see a clear space ahead where there is no such thing as a western haiku, just a short poem based on a metaphor?

                                               like squids
                                               bank clerks are fluorescent
                                               from the morning
                                   
                                                                          Kaneko Tota

Is ' the morning ' the second image/catalyst?

Regards
Nicole

I

[Seaview (Marion Clarke)]

Interesting. I have always thought of it as a line of bank clerks behind glass with the overhead fluorescent lighting reflecting of them, like in an aquarium, but they probably didn't work behind glass when Kaneko wrote this?

Yes, Alan, if he was a rebel and was told he couldn't use simile in haiku, then I'm sure that's exactly what he would have done! I see most of the English translations feature the word 'like' and the literal translation ends with that word.

I think I'd like him a lot!  :D

marion

[Seaview (Marion Clarke)]

Btw - I always thought the plural of squid was squid or is that a UK/US thing?

[AlanSummers]

Dear Marion,

Btw - I always thought the plural of squid was squid or is that a UK/US thing?

Squid and squids are both plural:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/squid

I'm guessing that American translators put an s on many things including squid and blossom.

Alan

[Seaview (Marion Clarke)]

Dear Marion,

Btw - I always thought the plural of squid was squid or is that a UK/US thing?

Squid and squids are both plural:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/squid

I'm guessing that American translators put an s on many things including squid and blossom.

Alan

Ah, thanks, Alan.

I've read so many cherry blossom haiku I've got to the stage where I forget whether I should be using blossom or blossoms.  ;D

marion