Unity

[Lorin]

"Insurance companies with "acts of God" clauses should be forced to prove God actually exists... #qldfloods

http://twitter.com/twe4ked

I'm with this bloke, even though I don't 'twitter'.

"However, as I argue in the introduction, most people in the West grew up within the Abrahamic tradition and so the hierarchical view remains in our outlook to some degree, whether we are aware of it or prefer it or not." -DavidGrayson

Yes, not only did most of us grow up within it (whether we were religious or not) the inherited hierarchical tradition is institutionalized in Western society. (see above re insurance companies/ acts of God) The USA even went further than many nations in having God on their paper money ('In God We Trust') Advertising can't get much more pervasive and subliminal than that!

Unity and hierarchy don't go together well. Unity can be represented by a circle; hierarchy as vertical pole with high and low positions notched on it.  Once Jehovah was promoted from being an ancient god of battle in a polytheistic culture to being the One God and the highest authority, it naturally followed that God's interpreters occupied the next rung down in the authority hierarchy. Too many destructive, cruel, repressive and exploitative things, over the course of history, has been done in God's name and by all three cultures 'of the Book', Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

Nevertheless, here is a haiku:

Christmas party-
mynahs watch over a nest
in the garage

- commended paper wasp Jack Stamm Award, 2006, published-the 7th pw Jack Stamm anthology, rusted hinge, 2006

(Indian mynahs are not native to Australia and are considered pests. Councils have issued edicts that nests and eggs should be sought and destroyed. The parents quite nervously watch over the nest after the chicks have hatched until they fledge. I couldn't help but recall the Christmas story when a friend actually showed me the mynahs and the nest at his Christmas party, in 2005.)

- Lorin

[snowbird a/k/a Merrill Ann Gonzales]

Carmen, You said so many things I could never find words for... If you read several translations of the Bible...especially the Old Testament... you find that the words mean a great deal more and encompass more than what is generally thought of in today's terms.   So much of any religion can be destroyed by poor teachers and misunderstandings.   These things are multiplied substancially across cultural boundaries and practices.
    So for the most part I have taken to expressing these things in natural terms...on what I see around me.   

my old porch
once again the star is hung
on a beam   

The old porch is me.... the star can either be the star I hang on a beam of the porch or the star that is hung on the beam of its light over my old porch.  The star is the light which guides my life... eternal light...as long lasting as the stars over head

[chibi575]

hi david and thanks

sorry though
i think i put you on a bum steer by saying this was from proverbs
i had to look up my bible to check this and it is in the Psalms

loosely based on Ps 81:16

...and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.

nice to meet you also

col :)

As I've was reading throught the comments... and coming upon col's comment a vivid image recalled from memory of my first trip to Japan.  On a ginko (nature walk) near Akita visiting the graves of some diciples of Basho, I noticed bees (this being early autumn) around one of the granite grave stones which had developed a crack over the ages, and, from this crack a stream of honey with bees entering and exiting above it!!

This moment has been a niggle of memory and I believe a poem or set of poems may eventually come from it.  Especially, from the resonation that which col wrote:

"loosely based on Ps 81:16

...and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee."

honey
from the autumn bees --
graveside flowers

autumn sunset:
golden honey seeps
from a gravestone

who would have thought? -- honey from a gravestone

even a sweet life ends -- honeycomb grave

-- word play --

divine design -- the bees honeycomb a catacomb

My apologies for my comment BEEing a bit abuzz!

[DavidGrayson]

Hi Lorin,

Thanks for the post! I like the haiku on several levels. One thing that strikes me is that it perfectly dovetails with your observations about authority and religious institutions. In the poem, councils are the authority (implied, of course, since they are not mentioned). The haiku nicely empathizes with the mynahs. And, of course, brings in the Christmas story. There is so much present in the poem's three lines!

[DavidGrayson]

Merrill,

Regarding: "So for the most part I have taken to expressing these things in natural terms...on what I see around me."

I really like and appreciate this practice, which can ground a poem (and probably the poet, too!). It reminds me of several of Robert Spiess's speculations, including the one that is the topic for this year's contest: "Haiku help to make our senses more alive to sounds, and colors, to textures and odors."

I really enjoyed the haiku.

[DavidGrayson]

Thanks, chibi575. I like the haiku, especially the first.

I decided to Google "honey." The Wikipedia result reminded me of the symbolism of honey in Judaism, and I also learned something about Hinduism. Here's the info from Wikipedia:

"In Hinduism, honey (Madhu) is one of the five elixirs of immortality (Panchamrita). In temples, honey is poured over the deities in a ritual called Madhu abhisheka. The Vedas and other ancient literature mention the use of honey as a great medicinal and health food.

In Jewish tradition, honey is a symbol for the new year, Rosh Hashana. At the traditional meal for that holiday, apple slices are dipped in honey and eaten to bring a sweet new year. Some Rosh Hashana greetings show honey and an apple, symbolizing the feast. In some congregations, small straws of honey are given out to usher in the new year."

So, honey in these two cases represents immortality and the new year (new beginnings).

David

[carmensterba]

Interesting thread on honey.

sunlit jar
the beekeeper's gift
on the doorstep

Carmen Sterba

This is not religious per se, but is one of those haiku that turned out to have a sense of awe and fulfillment beyond my expectation.

[colin stewart jones]

interesting David

thanks for the info on the symbolism of honey

on a simpler level

a land of milk and honey
would resonate with people as a place where one would have an ample supply of the good/sweet things life has to offer and where the struggle to feed oneself and family would not be one's constant pre-occupation

of course, the greeks also sought ambrosia and nectar


col :) 

[colin stewart jones]

 hi lorin i remember seeing an Aussie film
about the man who sued God
based on that story

unfortunately it starred billy Connolly which has always gotta be bad casting

anyway i must strongly disagree with your other assertions

so what god do you see on the US dollar
it may say in god we trust
but there is masonic symbols, a pyramid and the eye of horus
is is not the Allah of islam, or Jehovah ( more correctly Yahweh) of Judeo-Christianity

as to your point about terrible things done in the name of religion
do you really believe all terrible things, attrocities or wars over the centuries have religion as their cause
granted differences in religious beliefs has been used as an excuse to go to war


let's just take wars as an example
war has always been and will always be the primary means of increasing territory and wealth
the war machine still drives the worlds economy today
and it is financial gain or strategic reasons that dictate whether a country goes to war with another

the word rival and river have the same root in latin no surprise then that the guy on the other side of the river should be your enemy and he must be attacked and his possessions taken from him

no one really cared about kosovo or rwanda because they had not strategic importance or resources that could be exploited when the wars or fighting was over
not so iraq (oil)  afghanistan (opium)
when the fighting is over watch multinationals and corporations begin the bidding war for tenders and licenses to operate
these wars are being fought in the name of democratisation..not a faith religion but an ideology neverthe less and the people are still dying

quite frankly i find it ridiculous that people who have a problem with faith based systems still argue that religion causes war. (usually citing the crusades) The irony here is people believe this so called fact with what is akin to a religious faith and is certainly not based on empirical knowledge --at best it is naiive at worst some kind of fundamentalist deliberate blinkering of onself in order to deny the obvious truth and satisy some perverse need to justify a belief in what is patently false

remember religion means to follow without question and to some people of faith the word religion implies bondage not the freedom that comes from having a spiritual connection and relationship with their God    

but anyhow you probably don't accept my argument and neither do you have to
but can you back your point with the numbers who have been killed in the name of God

but taking just the 20th century as a starting point

number of dead in the name of Secular humanism, politically ideologies, Atheism or other non faith based political systems:

congo to 1908  8 million

mexican revolution 1910-20   10 million
WWI  15million

Russian Revolution  9 million

first chinese civil war  5 million

WWII 63 million

hitler ( who wanted to exterminate all jews, hitler was into the occult, and his reason to kill the jews: he blamed the jews for giving the world a conscience ) 6million
not counting gypsies, gays and the handicapped etc

stalin: no one really knows possibly 60million democides
+ 20 million russians who died fighting the nazis

Mao: 40 millions

korean war 1950-3 .. 3 million

cambodia pol pot 1.65 million

afghanistan
when the taliban were on our side 1.8 million

some dictators of the 20th c

mussolini
tito
franco
sadam hussein
general marcos
baby doc
practically all of S America had a dictator at some point


i am not even going to add all these up
no doubt there are many more that i have not included

well seeing as we are all haikuist's
the Japanese killed 4 million in china

and of course the bombing of hiroshima and nagasaki
not forgetting the carpet bombing of dresden


any way the point is there may have been many centuries of war
and religious differences may have been a motive though i would argue man's greed is the prime motivation for most wars
but man's ingenuity for finding new and increasingly effective was of killing his brothers expanded exponentially in the 20th century
and more people have died since the beginning of 20th c in the name of secular, humanistic, atheist political ideologies than the combined total of deaths from wars in the name of god before that date.
that is even if you assume all wars before this period were fought in the name of god
if you don't ..then i am even more confident in my reasoniing based on the numbers alone


col :)

[colin stewart jones]

i thought posting this here might be appropriate  given my previous comment






A PRIORI: Colin Stewart Jones
.
verbatim                        word for word
vox Dei vivat                  the voice of God lives
vis vitae                        an energy (a living force)
via, veritas, vita              the way, the truth, the life
verbum sat sapienti          a word is enough for a wise man


Years ago my Latin teacher told me that river and rival have the same root. Now as I look across the Euphrates I see my cousin and must hate him because he is descended from Ishmael and I don't care for his religion. "At least we can worship any god we choose." Mutatis mutandis.

They are Legion—for they are many.

Ah! But we have the Classical Tradition. Plato was an ideas man, true, but is that worth dying for? So we have landed classes and political oligarchies that will fight to maintain our liberty. "They're all terrorists and treat their women like shit." Ex uno disce omnes.

We are Idealists—not ideologues.

"You've never fought in a war." Even so, many have won the freedom for me not to impose my will upon another. Nevertheless, the Lion still follows the Eagle into battle. Dum spiro, spero.


I am Poet . . .


crescent moon—
tonight the man
is beheaded

-------------------------------------------
Translations:

Mutatis mutandis: with the necessary changes
Ex uno disce omnes: from one judge of the rest
Dum spiro, spero: while I breathe, I hope
---------------------------------------------

published: Haibun Today, Jan 7 2009

cheers
col :)

[Lorin]

hi lorin i remember seeing an Aussie film
about the man who sued God
based on that story

unfortunately it starred billy Connolly which has always gotta be bad casting

anyway i must strongly disagree with your other assertions


col :)

Hi Col, I vaguely remember seeing that film. It was a comedy, so Billy Connolly would've been good casting, imo. It had to be someone Irish, to carry it off. I guess it was a forgettable film, though.

I really don't want to get into argument or debate about religion, though. My dislike isn't for ordinary people of any faith, but for the system/s which authorize man (& it usually has been 'man') to pass off his own view/s of things as 'God's Law', 'God's Will' and 'God's Word'.

(... on U.S.A. paper money, along with the symbols you mention, I see the word 'God' quite legibly printed - 'In God We Trust'.)

- Lorin