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Anything new in haiku?

Started by Dmitri, February 19, 2023, 10:36:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Dmitri

Don't know if this is the best place for my question, but here goes. From what I can see, things seem
pretty quiet in the world of haiku. Seems like everyone has settled into his/her camp, some people writing "normative haiku", others writing haiku gendai-inflected work, no raised voices, not much new or
challenging. Is this a fair representation? I don't claim to be aware of everything that's going on.

Leads to this then-- does haiku need a jolt? Is it ready for one? Is it even possible at this point?

Many thanks.

Lorraine Pester

Quote from: Dmitri on February 19, 2023, 10:36:39 PM
Don't know if this is the best place for my question, but here goes. From what I can see, things seem
pretty quiet in the world of haiku. Seems like everyone has settled into his/her camp, some people writing "normative haiku", others writing haiku gendai-inflected work, no raised voices, not much new or
challenging. Is this a fair representation? I don't claim to be aware of everything that's going on.

Leads to this then-- does haiku need a jolt? Is it ready for one? Is it even possible at this point?

Many thanks.

every time a haijin dares to write his own truth and not worry about being published or labeled, that is a win for the haikai world. and when editor/publishers like Alan Summers celebrates those efforts and truths by publishing what few others will, that's a win too. have you looked at Alan's online journals that celebrate those haijin?

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

Dmitri

#2
Thank you. I do have the impression that Alan Summers is one of the more vocal champions for haiku-- all kinds of it.

I guess a better question could be whether or not haiku needs to progress in some way. Has it got
too set in its different ways?

AlanSummers

Hi Dmitri,

Could you explain more about haiku progressing?

Personally each new generation (age group or simply someone new coming to haiku) seems to add and stretch haiku.

For instance, the stance and support for attacks on women continues to be disturbing as it's covered up and protected by governments and institutions, for instance the pro-sexual attacks within the UK national health service reports in the last few days.

New journal haikuNetra:

fingers scraping
the inside of a cantaloupe
gang rape

           Muskaan Ahuja
https://haikunetra.blogspot.com/2023/09/haikunetra-issue-11.html

While most people in power, the old nasty feudal system which never left us, continues to be under protection. If a lowly haiku poem calls it out, and almost no one else or nothing else, that's progress of sorts.

Poetry in general is facing topics that politicians and corporate people will not allow us to call out. It's a shame few people in society reveal crimes against the population and not little poems do. I just don't think haiku and other poetics should carry all that weight. But there are some brave souls who push for justice although the legal system is built to prevent it.

In poetry we do what we can, but to ask it to carry all the weight?

Alan

Quote from: Dmitri on February 20, 2023, 05:23:56 PMThank you. I do have the impression that Alan Summers is one of the more vocal champions for haiku-- all kinds of it.

I guess a better question could be whether or not haiku needs to progress in some way. Has it got
too set in its different ways?
Alan Summers,
founder, Call of the Page
https://www.callofthepage.org

Lorraine Pester

Quote from: AlanSummers on September 12, 2023, 11:14:15 PMHi Dmitri,

Could you explain more about haiku progressing?

Personally each new generation (age group or simply someone new coming to haiku) seems to add and stretch haiku.

For instance, the stance and support for attacks on women continues to be disturbing as it's covered up and protected by governments and institutions, for instance the pro-sexual attacks within the UK national health service reports in the last few days.

New journal haikuNetra:

fingers scraping
the inside of a cantaloupe
gang rape

           Muskaan Ahuja
https://haikunetra.blogspot.com/2023/09/haikunetra-issue-11.html

While most people in power, the old nasty feudal system which never left us, continues to be under protection. If a lowly haiku poem calls it out, and almost no one else or nothing else, that's progress of sorts.

Poetry in general is facing topics that politicians and corporate people will not allow us to call out. It's a shame few people in society reveal crimes against the population and not little poems do. I just don't think haiku and other poetics should carry all that weight. But there are some brave souls who push for justice although the legal system is built to prevent it.

In poetry we do what we can, but to ask it to carry all the weight?

Alan

Quote from: Dmitri on February 20, 2023, 05:23:56 PMThank you. I do have the impression that Alan Summers is one of the more vocal champions for haiku-- all kinds of it.

I guess a better question could be whether or not haiku needs to progress in some way. Has it got
too set in its different ways?

hi Alan,

it's rather like the schools taking on the raising of the children en toto rather than just educating them. experienced that many years ago as an early elementary teacher.

i've done some soul-searching lately as to the branding of our poetic themes as we write. for me, the question is do i want to be marked as 'that poet with that past'? and your answer here tells me what i concluded. it's who i am. how can i not? hope that made sense.

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

AlanSummers

#5
Hi Lorraine!

Quote from: Lorraine Pester on September 13, 2023, 09:55:44 AMhi Alan,

it's rather like the schools taking on the raising of the children en toto rather than just educating them. experienced that many years ago as an early elementary teacher.

i've done some soul-searching lately as to the branding of our poetic themes as we write. for me, the question is do i want to be marked as 'that poet with that past'? and your answer here tells me what i concluded. it's who i am. how can i not? hope that made sense.

lorraine


There does seem to be an even more intense peer pressure, even policing in some instances, about how to write haiku a certain way. Do we write haiku as it's been 'done' the last 10-20 years, do something startlingly new, whether it's composed well or not?

I like poets who stick to their narrative arc, though will experiment as well, but not following any current pressure to adhere to any current fad or trend.

Judging the forthcoming competition I will be even more open-minded than ever, as a lot of less regular haiku writers, who don't know about the current fashions, and may not have any current haikai publications, will be entering.

I won't be putting them a narrow lens. After all, if we are poets, we want our skillsets sharpened as wordsmiths, and taut writing outside the so-called 'norm' of whatever long-term or new expert on the scene insists that we do.

I think it'll be an exciting contest, with people from many poetic backgrounds taking part. There is also an accessibility menu to help anyone with sight or reading issues.

GPS haiku contest
https://www.thegloucestershirepoetrysociety.co.uk/2023-haiku-competition

As mentor with Call of the Page I get to read a lot of amazing work in progress, covering tough subject matter. I don't see a quietness in the 'world of haiku' but then it's my job to observe as much as I can about what is happening in this poetic scene. We are still strongly in a pro-rape society, with dead cats being flung around to detract from high public figures in the News media and politics being investigated, tried, and arrested etc... Humble poets just don't have the money to employ big name lawyers to bring rapists to justice. So yeah, it's pretty quiet in the justice department within society as we don't have the big bucks to pursue these people. We can only cover tough subjects that are general, or if it's about us, we can't mention any big name well-monied person that easily.

I don't know what raised voices means in this context. Thankfully mental health issues are being bravely raised more and more in the world of haiku. Jacar Press not long ago (May 16, 2023) published this book:

Grasping the Fading Light: A Journey Through PTSD by Julie Bloss Kelsey
https://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Fading-Light-Journey-Through/dp/0936481242

WINNER OF THE 2021 WOMEN'S INTERNATIONAL HAIKU CONTEST FROM SABLE BOOKS.

"This manuscript has a global feel in spite of it being a personal experience. The poems are strong and forceful and at the same time gentle and honest. The interweaving of haiku and tanka effectively help in the arc of its narrative. Filled with a poignancy, the mood is one of resilience and bouncing back. One very important point to be noted is the healing that takes place as the pages unfold. In these times of trials and turmoil caused by Covid and war – the art of swinging back to sanity and normal life is deftly handled here. Definitely a winner!" -- Final Judge Kala Ramesh

Written by Julie Bloss Kelsey over a ten-year period, this book contains 65 short poems -- mainly haiku, senryu, kyoka, and tanka -- on the theme of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and recovery from childhood trauma. About the collection, she says, "I hope that this book will help those on similar journeys feel less alone."
https://sablebooks.org/international-womens-haiku-contest/

Anyone who knows Richard Krawiec, or of him, knows he publishes challenging books, different poetics, as well as haiku etc...
https://jacarpress.com/contact/

I'd say the haiku scene, both mainstream and off-stream (like off Broadway) is vibrant. We don't get the publicity to the same degree as other poets and other poetry publishing houses, but there is still a lot of news to be read/discovered across Instagram, Twitter/X, Facebook, and other platforms.

A lot of people are writing about tough topics, really tough ones, from Lorraine Pester, Roberta Beary, and others. They cover highly uncomfortable areas of abuse, with tight writing.

Does haiku need a jolt? I doubt it. Does society and turning the other eye to injustice need a jolt? Most definitely, and rather than this immature left-wing/right-wing positioning etc... poets are writing about tough issues. The jolt to my mind is readers buying more poetry books and just like some Instagram haiku poets, selling tens of thousands of copies.  The big jolt is to encourage children to read, that it's not a crime to read a book, and committing an act of reading every year of their life. Now that's radical.

warm regards,
Alan
founder, Call of the Page

p.s.
More publishing houses are coming out, small and large, which is great. Now if we could stop poetry being marginalised in schools, that would be an incredible jolt!

Quote from: Lorraine Pester on September 13, 2023, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: AlanSummers on September 12, 2023, 11:14:15 PMHi Dmitri,

Could you explain more about haiku progressing?

Personally each new generation (age group or simply someone new coming to haiku) seems to add and stretch haiku.

For instance, the stance and support for attacks on women continues to be disturbing as it's covered up and protected by governments and institutions, for instance the pro-sexual attacks within the UK national health service reports in the last few days.

New journal haikuNetra:

fingers scraping
the inside of a cantaloupe
gang rape

          Muskaan Ahuja
https://haikunetra.blogspot.com/2023/09/haikunetra-issue-11.html

While most people in power, the old nasty feudal system which never left us, continues to be under protection. If a lowly haiku poem calls it out, and almost no one else or nothing else, that's progress of sorts.

Poetry in general is facing topics that politicians and corporate people will not allow us to call out. It's a shame few people in society reveal crimes against the population and not little poems do. I just don't think haiku and other poetics should carry all that weight. But there are some brave souls who push for justice although the legal system is built to prevent it.

In poetry we do what we can, but to ask it to carry all the weight?

Alan

Quote from: Dmitri on February 20, 2023, 05:23:56 PMThank you. I do have the impression that Alan Summers is one of the more vocal champions for haiku-- all kinds of it.

I guess a better question could be whether or not haiku needs to progress in some way. Has it got
too set in its different ways?

hi Alan,

it's rather like the schools taking on the raising of the children en toto rather than just educating them. experienced that many years ago as an early elementary teacher.

i've done some soul-searching lately as to the branding of our poetic themes as we write. for me, the question is do i want to be marked as 'that poet with that past'? and your answer here tells me what i concluded. it's who i am. how can i not? hope that made sense.

lorraine

Alan Summers,
founder, Call of the Page
https://www.callofthepage.org

Lorraine Pester

Quote from: AlanSummers on September 17, 2023, 04:13:05 PMHi Lorraine!

Quote from: Lorraine Pester on September 13, 2023, 09:55:44 AMhi Alan,

it's rather like the schools taking on the raising of the children en toto rather than just educating them. experienced that many years ago as an early elementary teacher.

i've done some soul-searching lately as to the branding of our poetic themes as we write. for me, the question is do i want to be marked as 'that poet with that past'? and your answer here tells me what i concluded. it's who i am. how can i not? hope that made sense.

lorraine


There does seem to be an even more intense peer pressure, even policing in some instances, about how to write haiku a certain way. Do we write haiku as it's been 'done' the last 10-20 years, do something startlingly new, whether it's composed well or not?

I like poets who stick to their narrative arc, though will experiment as well, but not following any current pressure to adhere to any current fad or trend.

Judging the forthcoming competition I will be even more open-minded than ever, as a lot of less regular haiku writers, who don't know about the current fashions, and may not have any current haikai publications, will be entering.

I won't be putting them a narrow lens. After all, if we are poets, we want our skillsets sharpened as wordsmiths, and taut writing outside the so-called 'norm' of whatever long-term or new expert on the scene insists that we do.

I think it'll be an exciting contest, with people from many poetic backgrounds taking part. There is also an accessibility menu to help anyone with sight or reading issues.

GPS haiku contest
https://www.thegloucestershirepoetrysociety.co.uk/2023-haiku-competition

As mentor with Call of the Page I get to read a lot of amazing work in progress, covering tough subject matter. I don't see a quietness in the 'world of haiku' but then it's my job to observe as much as I can about what is happening in this poetic scene. We are still strongly in a pro-rape society, with dead cats being flung around to detract from high public figures in the News media and politics being investigated, tried, and arrested etc... Humble poets just don't have the money to employ big name lawyers to bring rapists to justice. So yeah, it's pretty quiet in the justice department within society as we don't have the big bucks to pursue these people. We can only cover tough subjects that are general, or if it's about us, we can't mention any big name well-monied person that easily.

I don't know what raised voices means in this context. Thankfully mental health issues are being bravely raised more and more in the world of haiku. Jacar Press not long ago (May 16, 2023) published this book:

Grasping the Fading Light: A Journey Through PTSD by Julie Bloss Kelsey
https://www.amazon.com/Grasping-Fading-Light-Journey-Through/dp/0936481242

WINNER OF THE 2021 WOMEN'S INTERNATIONAL HAIKU CONTEST FROM SABLE BOOKS.

"This manuscript has a global feel in spite of it being a personal experience. The poems are strong and forceful and at the same time gentle and honest. The interweaving of haiku and tanka effectively help in the arc of its narrative. Filled with a poignancy, the mood is one of resilience and bouncing back. One very important point to be noted is the healing that takes place as the pages unfold. In these times of trials and turmoil caused by Covid and war – the art of swinging back to sanity and normal life is deftly handled here. Definitely a winner!" -- Final Judge Kala Ramesh

Written by Julie Bloss Kelsey over a ten-year period, this book contains 65 short poems -- mainly haiku, senryu, kyoka, and tanka -- on the theme of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and recovery from childhood trauma. About the collection, she says, "I hope that this book will help those on similar journeys feel less alone."
https://sablebooks.org/international-womens-haiku-contest/

Anyone who knows Richard Krawiec, or of him, knows he publishes challenging books, different poetics, as well as haiku etc...
https://jacarpress.com/contact/

I'd say the haiku scene, both mainstream and off-stream (like off Broadway) is vibrant. We don't get the publicity to the same degree as other poets and other poetry publishing houses, but there is still a lot of news to be read/discovered across Instagram, Twitter/X, Facebook, and other platforms.

A lot of people are writing about tough topics, really tough ones, from Lorraine Pester, Roberta Beary, and others. They cover highly uncomfortable areas of abuse, with tight writing.

Does haiku need a jolt? I doubt it. Does society and turning the other eye to injustice need a jolt? Most definitely, and rather than this immature left-wing/right-wing positioning etc... poets are writing about tough issues. The jolt to my mind is readers buying more poetry books and just like some Instagram haiku poets, selling tens of thousands of copies.  The big jolt is to encourage children to read, that it's not a crime to read a book, and committing an act of reading every year of their life. Now that's radical.

warm regards,
Alan
founder, Call of the Page

p.s.
More publishing houses are coming out, small and large, which is great. Now if we could stop poetry being marginalised in schools, that would be an incredible jolt!

Quote from: Lorraine Pester on September 13, 2023, 09:55:44 AM
Quote from: AlanSummers on September 12, 2023, 11:14:15 PMHi Dmitri,

Could you explain more about haiku progressing?

Personally each new generation (age group or simply someone new coming to haiku) seems to add and stretch haiku.

For instance, the stance and support for attacks on women continues to be disturbing as it's covered up and protected by governments and institutions, for instance the pro-sexual attacks within the UK national health service reports in the last few days.

New journal haikuNetra:

fingers scraping
the inside of a cantaloupe
gang rape

          Muskaan Ahuja
https://haikunetra.blogspot.com/2023/09/haikunetra-issue-11.html

While most people in power, the old nasty feudal system which never left us, continues to be under protection. If a lowly haiku poem calls it out, and almost no one else or nothing else, that's progress of sorts.

Poetry in general is facing topics that politicians and corporate people will not allow us to call out. It's a shame few people in society reveal crimes against the population and not little poems do. I just don't think haiku and other poetics should carry all that weight. But there are some brave souls who push for justice although the legal system is built to prevent it.

In poetry we do what we can, but to ask it to carry all the weight?

Alan

Quote from: Dmitri on February 20, 2023, 05:23:56 PMThank you. I do have the impression that Alan Summers is one of the more vocal champions for haiku-- all kinds of it.

I guess a better question could be whether or not haiku needs to progress in some way. Has it got
too set in its different ways?

hi Alan,

it's rather like the schools taking on the raising of the children en toto rather than just educating them. experienced that many years ago as an early elementary teacher.

i've done some soul-searching lately as to the branding of our poetic themes as we write. for me, the question is do i want to be marked as 'that poet with that past'? and your answer here tells me what i concluded. it's who i am. how can i not? hope that made sense.

lorraine



hi Alan,

what a great addition you just made to this thread.

i don't think very many poets start out learning to write just to write about whatever theme they wind up zeroing into. you gotta learn how to get across the easy stuff first to the reader. it also helps learning which form suits best your thinking and style of writing. when i found haibun, tanka prose,zuihitsu, and shahai, i knew i was home.

i think that Jim Kacian has done a great job providing a safe space where we can all express ourselves and get valuable feedback. it's a welcoming atmosphere that i really appreciate. thank you Jim and everyone who makes this forum what it is.

it's really important to me to have found someones who encourage each of the haijin they work with to write them selves. that would be Alan Summers, Marion Clarke, Chen-ou and light pilgrim. thank you.

thank you for the links, Alan. thank you for the time you take whenever you reply.

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

meghalls

One place to look for what is new in haiku is the Heliosparrow Poetry Journal.

https://heliosparrow.com

Dmitri

I am accepting of much "avant-garde" haiku, but even I find some of the haiku in Heliosparrow challenging. It is hard to know what is "progress" and what is experimentation. Is it right to say that there is no progress without experimentation? Have I answered my own question?

I would be very interested to know what others think of what appears in Heliosparrow, and what constitutes progress.

Politely offered-- 

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