Author Topic: a question about repetition in haiku  (Read 359 times)

Lorraine Pester

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a question about repetition in haiku
« on: August 01, 2021, 08:11:33 PM »

several weeks ago, alan gave a link to the virtual meetings of the haiku society of north america (probably got that name wrong) who videoed their annual meeting that was held back in june, 2021. the question i have involves repetition in haiku.

specifically, where the first word of the haiku is also the last. now. . .some of you know me by now, well enough to know that i didn’t use the formula exactly

the monostich that i wrote was:::

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie

does the similarity of lingering / lingerie come across as i intended as a use of repetition? to me, this is kin to near rhyme / off rhyme in longer poetry forms.

i presented it as a haiga for submission, complete with calligraphically spaced text on my photo. although my other two were liked, this one was passed on.

so. . .all that aside, does this monostich work or not the way i originally thought of it?

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

Seaview (Marion Clarke)

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Re: a question about repetition in haiku
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2021, 02:58:33 AM »
Hi Lorraine, your post caught my eye.

Firstly, when pronounced aloud,lingering and lingerie sound very different to my ear. There is certainly visual similarity in that a lot of letters are the same, lingeri but the alliteration of L sounds is what I hear when I read this aloud and this has a sensual effect.

The word scent seems redundant, as this comes through inlavender. Even silk might be discarded. But that's just my opinion. In any case, just the three elements below are highly evocative. The lingering could refer to a hint of lavender in the air, or discarded lavender-coloured lingerie and the first and last words are a lot closer now.

lingering lavender lingerie

You mention that it was used in a haiga. Perhaps it was simply the combination of art and text that didn't work for the editor?

Sorry, I seem to have answered your question with a question!

marion

AlanSummers

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Re: a question about repetition in haiku
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2021, 03:30:02 AM »
Hi Lorraine,

Marion has given a good response so I'll try to be brief!

Yes, so many haiku organisations it does get confusing, and someone else got them mixed up on a different enquiry.

So it was the Haiku Society of America (established 1968) and this was a HSA Conference presentation:

Repetition in Haiku:
A Presentation and Workshop by Brad Bennett and Jeannie Martin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k5kG9ruqw&t=14s

Sadly there doesn't seem to be a slides pdf for this presentation:
http://www.hsa-haiku.org/meetings/2021-conference.htm

I wouldn't call this a monostich, as they are often titled.


re:

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie


It's very olfactory and tactile and sensuous.  Perhaps consider submitting in October to the new one line poem journal: 

whiptail: journal of the single-line poem
https://www.whiptailjournal.com/submissions.html


It would also do well as a performance haikai verse. I still remember Karen holding an audience at the Poetry Society (UK) venue for ten minutes over one single senryu. Part of it was a deliberate delivery with precision comic timing, but also by default she did a John Cage 4′33″ (pronounced "four minutes, thirty-three seconds" or just "four thirty-three") which is a three-movement composition.

warm regards,
Alan


several weeks ago, alan gave a link to the virtual meetings of the haiku society of north america (probably got that name wrong) who videoed their annual meeting that was held back in june, 2021. the question i have involves repetition in haiku.

specifically, where the first word of the haiku is also the last. now. . .some of you know me by now, well enough to know that i didn’t use the formula exactly

the monostich that i wrote was:::

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie

does the similarity of lingering / lingerie come across as i intended as a use of repetition? to me, this is kin to near rhyme / off rhyme in longer poetry forms.

i presented it as a haiga for submission, complete with calligraphically spaced text on my photo. although my other two were liked, this one was passed on.

so. . .all that aside, does this monostich work or not the way i originally thought of it?

lorraine

Hi Lorraine, your post caught my eye.

Firstly, when pronounced aloud,lingering and lingerie sound very different to my ear. There is certainly visual similarity in that a lot of letters are the same, lingeri but the alliteration of L sounds is what I hear when I read this aloud and this has a sensual effect.

The word scent seems redundant, as this comes through inlavender. Even silk might be discarded. But that's just my opinion. In any case, just the three elements below are highly evocative. The lingering could refer to a hint of lavender in the air, or discarded lavender-coloured lingerie and the first and last words are a lot closer now.

lingering lavender lingerie

You mention that it was used in a haiga. Perhaps it was simply the combination of art and text that didn't work for the editor?

Sorry, I seem to have answered your question with a question!

marion

Lorraine Pester

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Re: a question about repetition in haiku
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2021, 07:38:12 AM »
Hi Lorraine, your post caught my eye.

Firstly, when pronounced aloud,lingering and lingerie sound very different to my ear. There is certainly visual similarity in that a lot of letters are the same, lingeri but the alliteration of L sounds is what I hear when I read this aloud and this has a sensual effect.

The word scent seems redundant, as this comes through inlavender. Even silk might be discarded. But that's just my opinion. In any case, just the three elements below are highly evocative. The lingering could refer to a hint of lavender in the air, or discarded lavender-coloured lingerie and the first and last words are a lot closer now.

lingering lavender lingerie

You mention that it was used in a haiga. Perhaps it was simply the combination of art and text that didn't work for the editor?

Sorry, I seem to have answered your question with a question!

marion

hi c!

thanks for the response.

wow! the alliterative l’s by themselves are very minimalist. i’ll have to think about that.

the haiga:::the text was presented in a concrete manner with lingering literally wafting on the photo. i favor zapafino font for my haiga, and liked the calligraphic nature of the warped text for that specific word.

the photo i used was one that i’d radically abstracted years ago in lavenders and greens.

it may have been the warped rext the editor didn’t care for. the two she did like did not utilize warped text which i like to use for visual movement.

since it was my very first haiga submission ever, i’ve had several conversations with the editor. i just hate to pin her down about this haiga.

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

Lorraine Pester

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Re: a question about repetition in haiku
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2021, 07:45:50 AM »
Hi Lorraine,

Marion has given a good response so I'll try to be brief!

Yes, so many haiku organisations it does get confusing, and someone else got them mixed up on a different enquiry.

So it was the Haiku Society of America (established 1968) and this was a HSA Conference presentation:

Repetition in Haiku:
A Presentation and Workshop by Brad Bennett and Jeannie Martin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k5kG9ruqw&t=14s

Sadly there doesn't seem to be a slides pdf for this presentation:
http://www.hsa-haiku.org/meetings/2021-conference.htm

I wouldn't call this a monostich, as they are often titled.


re:

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie


It's very olfactory and tactile and sensuous.  Perhaps consider submitting in October to the new one line poem journal: 

whiptail: journal of the single-line poem
https://www.whiptailjournal.com/submissions.html


It would also do well as a performance haikai verse. I still remember Karen holding an audience at the Poetry Society (UK) venue for ten minutes over one single senryu. Part of it was a deliberate delivery with precision comic timing, but also by default she did a John Cage 4′33″ (pronounced "four minutes, thirty-three seconds" or just "four thirty-three") which is a three-movement composition.

warm regards,
Alan


several weeks ago, alan gave a link to the virtual meetings of the haiku society of north america (probably got that name wrong) who videoed their annual meeting that was held back in june, 2021. the question i have involves repetition in haiku.

specifically, where the first word of the haiku is also the last. now. . .some of you know me by now, well enough to know that i didn’t use the formula exactly

the monostich that i wrote was:::

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie

does the similarity of lingering / lingerie come across as i intended as a use of repetition? to me, this is kin to near rhyme / off rhyme in longer poetry forms.

i presented it as a haiga for submission, complete with calligraphically spaced text on my photo. although my other two were liked, this one was passed on.

so. . .all that aside, does this monostich work or not the way i originally thought of it?

lorraine

Hi Lorraine, your post caught my eye.

Firstly, when pronounced aloud,lingering and lingerie sound very different to my ear. There is certainly visual similarity in that a lot of letters are the same, lingeri but the alliteration of L sounds is what I hear when I read this aloud and this has a sensual effect.

The word scent seems redundant, as this comes through inlavender. Even silk might be discarded. But that's just my opinion. In any case, just the three elements below are highly evocative. The lingering could refer to a hint of lavender in the air, or discarded lavender-coloured lingerie and the first and last words are a lot closer now.

lingering lavender lingerie

You mention that it was used in a haiga. Perhaps it was simply the combination of art and text that didn't work for the editor?

Sorry, I seem to have answered your question with a question!

marion

hi Alan,

wow! the words you use to describe this short ku! i’m glad you like it!

i took a look at the link for the new journal. i can submit as a haiga or a concrete ku or just straight. ahhhh, choices!

i noticed in your call of the page newsletter that you’ll be offering a monoku class? running tandem with whiptails startup. nice for both of you.

thanks for the conversation.

lorraine
My entire soul is a cry, and all my work is a commentary on that cry.   Nikos Kazantzakis

AlanSummers

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Re: a question about repetition in haiku
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2021, 07:24:47 AM »
Hi Lorraine,

Repetition comes in all shapes and sizes, here's one of mine which also works in French:


house clearance
room by room by room
my mother disappears


Alan Summers
Winner, Touchstone Award 2016 (The Haiku Foundation)
Shortlisted: Museum of Haiku Literature, Tokyo, Japan
First Publication Credit: Blithe Spirit 26.1 (March 2016)


Anthology Credits:

The Signature Haiku Anthology ed. Robert Epstein (Middle Island Press 2020)

2018 Haiku Canada Members' Anthology / L’anthologie 2018 des membres de Haïku Canada
ed. Marco Fraticelli and Philomene Kocher

old song: The Red Moon Anthology of English-Language Haiku 2017
ed. Jim Kacian/Red Moon Press Editorial Staff

Haiku Foundation Per Diem credits:
Per Diem ed. Dave Read (The Haiku Foundation Friday 28th June 2019)
Per Diem ed. Anna Maris Per Diem (October 2019)


Translated into French plus an “Analyse de la structure d'un haïku”
by Serge Tomé of tempslibres (Belgium, Europe)

vidage de maison
pièce après pièce après pièce
ma mère disparait


re:
"wow! the words you use to describe this short ku! i’m glad you like it!"
Thanks!!!

re:
"i took a look at the link for the new journal. i can submit as a haiga or a concrete ku or just straight. ahhhh, choices!"
All part of being an artist and poet I'm afraid! <grin>


re:
"i noticed in your call of the page newsletter that you’ll be offering a monoku class? running tandem with whiptails startup. nice for both of you. "

Sheer coincidence, as I've been wanting to run a second one line haiku class for a year, and Karen was able to put one up for the Autumn classes:

The Pursuit of One-Line Haiku
https://www.callofthepage.org/courses/haiku-courses/the-pursuit-of-one-line-haiku/

Decisions, decisions, as Karen has also found an amazing new photography tutor, for our shahai course, as our regular expert has commitments for the rest of this year, though we hope to have her back in the future!

Alan



Hi Lorraine,

Marion has given a good response so I'll try to be brief!

Yes, so many haiku organisations it does get confusing, and someone else got them mixed up on a different enquiry.

So it was the Haiku Society of America (established 1968) and this was a HSA Conference presentation:

Repetition in Haiku:
A Presentation and Workshop by Brad Bennett and Jeannie Martin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k5kG9ruqw&t=14s

Sadly there doesn't seem to be a slides pdf for this presentation:
http://www.hsa-haiku.org/meetings/2021-conference.htm

I wouldn't call this a monostich, as they are often titled.


re:

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie


It's very olfactory and tactile and sensuous.  Perhaps consider submitting in October to the new one line poem journal: 

whiptail: journal of the single-line poem
https://www.whiptailjournal.com/submissions.html


It would also do well as a performance haikai verse. I still remember Karen holding an audience at the Poetry Society (UK) venue for ten minutes over one single senryu. Part of it was a deliberate delivery with precision comic timing, but also by default she did a John Cage 4′33″ (pronounced "four minutes, thirty-three seconds" or just "four thirty-three") which is a three-movement composition.

warm regards,
Alan


several weeks ago, alan gave a link to the virtual meetings of the haiku society of north america (probably got that name wrong) who videoed their annual meeting that was held back in june, 2021. the question i have involves repetition in haiku.

specifically, where the first word of the haiku is also the last. now. . .some of you know me by now, well enough to know that i didn’t use the formula exactly

the monostich that i wrote was:::

lingering lavender scent silk lingerie

does the similarity of lingering / lingerie come across as i intended as a use of repetition? to me, this is kin to near rhyme / off rhyme in longer poetry forms.

i presented it as a haiga for submission, complete with calligraphically spaced text on my photo. although my other two were liked, this one was passed on.

so. . .all that aside, does this monostich work or not the way i originally thought of it?

lorraine

Hi Lorraine, your post caught my eye.

Firstly, when pronounced aloud,lingering and lingerie sound very different to my ear. There is certainly visual similarity in that a lot of letters are the same, lingeri but the alliteration of L sounds is what I hear when I read this aloud and this has a sensual effect.

The word scent seems redundant, as this comes through inlavender. Even silk might be discarded. But that's just my opinion. In any case, just the three elements below are highly evocative. The lingering could refer to a hint of lavender in the air, or discarded lavender-coloured lingerie and the first and last words are a lot closer now.

lingering lavender lingerie

You mention that it was used in a haiga. Perhaps it was simply the combination of art and text that didn't work for the editor?

Sorry, I seem to have answered your question with a question!

marion

hi Alan,

wow! the words you use to describe this short ku! i’m glad you like it!

i took a look at the link for the new journal. i can submit as a haiga or a concrete ku or just straight. ahhhh, choices!

i noticed in your call of the page newsletter that you’ll be offering a monoku class? running tandem with whiptails startup. nice for both of you.

thanks for the conversation.

lorraine