Hi Lorraine,
This thread seems to have taken off since I last replied to your first post, which is great.
Coleridge, Levertov and Hopkins are the basics for "organic form poetry, so I suppose the source is similar.
i swear you and i have been reading similar information. coleridge. levertov. gerald manley hopkins.
Mind you, I highlighted very bare-to-the-bone basics of organic poetry from my own reading so it is good to know that I have not veered off point in comparison to the essay you read:
the above mentioned essay by levertov was only briefly mentioned by the person who was running the class. however, i found in it the basis that made best sense for addressing the structure of organic poetry which you mention.
I find this fascinating. I would love to hear a Diné recitation. Perhaps such use of "organic form" poetry will grown exponentially and reach beyond cultural and language:
not sure what others got out of a fairly choppy presentation by a Dine poet (native american poet who primarily uses native american language processing to write their poetry) but i just followed the google breadcrumbs to yet another essay.
Now here I must admit that I know very little about American Literature, where "Projective verse" and Olson feature prominently.
projective verse :::appears to me that the main element in utilizing it has to do with the actual line length and structure of a poem being dictated by the length of the poet’s breath as he writes the line as he would speak it (so the poet’s speech patterns become the shaping factor of each line of each poem?) and also the way it sounds to the ear when read aloud. so that rhyme of all sorts. rhythm. the way syllables act. will all be of primary importance to this way of writing. so that the artificial forms created to use these elements (i think of meter,accent, used in writing sonnets for example) are to be eschewed.
However, what you say about Olson's idea of a poet's breath and the length of the line in a poem is interesting and makes me think of the Japanese Uta - gathering - where verses were read and written to what could be called "prompts" of motifs and themes. The latter were often premised on the host of the Uta - his house, garden, perhaps lineage of some prominence. My point being that what Olsen seems to be saying about the auditory and "breath" are quite similar to the way poetry was written and shared in Japan. Olson was influenced by Ezra Pound, whose monumental work,
The Cantos was based on musical thematic structure rather than the traditional narrative structure. Pound in turn was influenced by the work of Ernst Fenellosa, a scholar of Japanese art and culture, who lived and taught in Japan. After his death in 1908 Fenellosa's body of notes on Japanese and also Chinese literature was left to Pound which Pound studied at great length with the help of Waley. Fenellosa's work on Chinese literature introduced Pound to Chinese ideograms, which feature in
The Cantos. Pound also studied the verse form, the haiku, from Fenellosa's notes. So, I wonder if Olson's idea of "breath poem" is perhaps a nod to the influence of Pound?
I have enjoyed this discussion and will definitely read up more on "Projective Poetry".
light pilgrim
Topic: zuihitsu, organic form poetry and open form poetry (Read 5216 times)