The Haiku Foundation Forums

Thanks Devora ...
I do disagree with myself sometimes ... but "anything goes"

is a statements you can find when reading online . . .

As for traditional Japanese haiku, you can find the definition from here

Inahata Teiko:
It is very important that you feel free to Write a haiku your way.
But there are certain basic conditions which you as a haiku poet are supposed to observe. .
.
And they are 5 7 5, one season word (kigo),  one cut marker (kireji) .
Haiku is a poem born from a "season word."

Read it all here
http://www.kyoshi.or.jp/inv-haiku/inv-haiku.htm
.
Greetings from a cold morning in Japan
Gabi
.

my cat is called HAIKU kun ...

;D

and I sneeze   HAI-CHUM !

:-*  :-*  :-*

Greetings from a cold morning in Japan.

Gabi

I have not been visitiong for a long time ... sorry, Old Man Bananas is taking up my time.

As for the question,  And this is a haiku because . . . ?

I find it difficult lately to use the word HAIKU without any qualifying adjective, since there are so many different kinds of HAIKU . . .

It seems a "haiku jungle" out there  :-\
.
Adjectives are used to define types of Japanese haiku
in ABC order

Association of Japanese Classical Haiku -
Nihon Dentoo Haiku Kyookai 日本伝統俳句協会
Traditional, Classical Haiku - Dento Haiku 伝統俳句

Essential Haiku - Kongen Haiku 根源俳句

Experimental Haiku - Jikkensei Haiku 実験性俳句

Free Autonomous Haiku - Jiritsu Haiku 自律俳句
free form haiku

Modern Haiku - Gendai Haiku　現代俳句

Muki Haiku - Haiku without a season word 無季俳句

Neo-classical Haiku

New Style Haiku - Shintai Haiku　新体俳句

New Trend Haiku - Shin Keiko Haiku 新傾向俳句

Objective sketching from life - Kyakkan Shasei 客観写生

Vanguard Haiku - Zenei Haiku 前衛俳句

Young and New Haiku 新興俳句 shinkoo haiku, Shinko Haiku
New Style Haiku


muki haiku 無季俳句　haiku without a season word
. Muki haiku and Kaneko Tohta .

eigo HA.I.KU 英語ハイク English Haiku
(spelled with katakana to show they differ from 俳句)

Anglo-Western haiku-like poems :

ELH - English Language Haiku
WLH - Western Language Haiku

one-line haiku, monostitch

Japanese hokku　発句
English language hokku - Hokku

free-style haiku
anything-goes-haiku
new ku

haiku-like short poetry
haiku-like free verse


sangyooshi 三行詩 Sangyoshi, poem with three lines
gogyooshi 五行詩 Gogyoshi, poem with five lines
Gogyōshi - invented by Taro Aizu in May 2011
©　More in the WIKIPEDIA !

You find more if you google!
.
http://wkdhaikutopics.blogspot.jp/2007/02/haiku-definitions.html
.
And this is a haiku because . . . ? The author says so.
But the reader is free to think something else, add his/her own lable
or just enjoy it as is !!.
.
Greetings from Japan
Gabi
.

You could say all of the kigo are "cliche" because they have been used so many times over the years ...
I prefere not to see them as cliche

but as a common heritage to the haiku poets (of Japan)
and some of them shared worldwide.

The Japanese saijiki does not feel like a collection of cliche haiku to me,
does it to any of you?
.
Sitting in the rain tempted to write a haiku about the cliche

typhoon

But that is more of a real threat just now ...
>:(

Gabi
.

虚数の雨雲の下黙々と怪物と戦う　　
夏石番矢

kyosuu no amagumo no shita
mokumoku to kaibutsu to tatakau

This seems all to be about the problems of Fukushima and the misleasding information given in the Japanese media. It was his reaction to an information of the first of october (last year), when they announced that the levels of radioactivity are falling even more.

.
Thanks a lot for introducing this poem.
Gabi

under the clouds of imaginary numbers
fighting silently
against a monster

Ban'ya Natsuishi. Translated by Ban'ya Natsusihi and Jim Kacian.

Do you have the Japanese for this one?
I was wondering if Natsuishi sensei wrote 5 7 5 or some other meter, as the translation suggests?
Gabi

Thanks for your answer, Alan!
I guess it does not answer my question, but nerver mind.
Gabi

Do you make a distinction between haiku and
free verse or free-style poetry or short-form poetry
(or whatever names have come up for poems which are not haiku but short ) ?

"So we may have a plethora of form statements, but would one definition do any good either?
Alan"

Do you make a distinction between haiku and free verse or free-style poetry or short-form poetry (or whatever names have come up for poems which are not haiku but short ) ?

Greetings from a rainy afternoon in Japan.
Gabi

Quite a lot is now available at googlebooks.
Hope the link works
https://www.google.com/search?q=haiku&tbm=bks&tbo=1&oq=haiku

Gabi

In Japan, one of the first things my haiku sensei teacher told me was

haiku wa kisetsu no aisatsu desu.
Haiku is a seasonal greeting.

... whereby the kigo carries the seasonal message.

All the kigo around the festivals and rituals of Japan are in a social context.
All the kigo about food, clothing and daily life (category humanity) are in a social context.

For me, they are a great way to study about Japanese culture.

And indeed, EH haiku with cultural keywords are a joy to read and learn more about the cultures of the world.
.
Greetings from Japan
Gabi
.
http://worldkigodatabase.blogspot.jp/2006/12/kigo-use-in-haiku.html
.

and another oldie -

Tue Nov 23, 2004
Yesterday a friend of mine, Japanese and doing traditional Hula dance in Hawaii very successfully for many years now, was quoted in the Japan Times as saying:

<> Why does Japan have to take something deep and beautiful like hula,
and change it to be perfect, empty and cold?
I see it as my lifework here to restore spiritual content to hula, to help Japanese people appreciate and respect its roots.

。。。Keisuke Yasuda

When I read this, I immediately substituted HULA for HAIKU and Japan for America and found my lifework with the World Kigo Database to be very similar.
.
http://happyhaiku.blogspot.jp/2006/08/haiku-doo-way-of-haiku.html
.
still raining . . .
Gabi

Danjuro XII and the freedom in Kabuki acting

Freedom is fine; but I get the feeling that many modern-day Japanese have forgotten that freedom comes with responsibility. This concept is found in kabuki, so people who come to watch it will be exposed to the responsibility of freedom as well as freedom's limits.

Think of freedom as a dog that feels free to run around a fenced garden.
It feels satisfied because it is not stuck in the house, even though it doesn't have the freedom to go outside the garden.
Freedom exists inside the garden as well as outside.
But there is a barrier.
Nowadays, there is no such barrier.
I think kabuki expresses the freedom that exists within a barrier.

end of quote

Now substitute KABUKI with HAIKU
.
http://wkdhaikutopics.blogspot.jp/2007/05/rules-for-haiku.html
.

It is a rainy day, just right for pondering, dear Don!
Gabi

I guess for Japanese haiku, the idea of nature is expressed in these categories

jikoo　時候　Season, climate, time　
tenmon 天文　Heaven, natural phenomena, astronomy, celestial
chiri 地理　Earth, geography, terrestrial
doobutsu 動物　Animals, Zoology
shokubutsu 植物　Plants, Biology

and two categories about human life  are

seikatsu 生活　Humanity, daily life, livelihood
gyooji 行事　Observances, seasonal events, occasions

Gabi

Thanks for sharing your versions, Larry!

The translator is in a difficult position indeed.
I prefere to add footnotes to explain what is implied in the poem and if possible some background.

Greetings from a warm spring morning in Japan.
Gabi

matsutake
it looks more like a red pine
with its ragged top

Don

This would imply, more than any other mushroom, if my German is not too much interfering.

Yours is a nice version, but the nihongo is a bit different in nuance.

Also, I wonder if the name "Matsutake" is well enough known outside of Japan to be used as a word in this poem?


matsutake ya kabureta hodo wa matsu no nari

Basho could put a lot of information in these three sections:

The name of the mushroom comes from the area where the mushroom grows, in a pine grove of Japanese red pines (akamatsu).
But as Basho takes a closer look, he finds that the form of the mushroom itself resembles the tree.
The broken, tattered (yabureta) parts of the hat look like the broken bark of akamatsu.
The haiku contains the kireji (cutting word YA) at the end of line 1
It also contains the word HODO ... the more of this ... the more of that

So here is my paraverse, containing all the information in the haiku by Basho

pine mushrooms -
the more ragged their tops
the more they  look like red pine
.
AAAAA, Don san,  have you ever tasted dobin mushi ?

Gabi
.