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Wow!  Excellently done!  A stunning pair of poems.

The 1st annual Under the Basho International Haiku Contest is coming soon! Submission dates will be announced by October 1st. 1st Place - $500 (USA$); 2nd Place - $150 (USA$); 3rd Place - $50 (USA$). Five honorable mentions. Certificates will be issued including for honorable mentions. I wish everyone the best of luck and skill.

Check in soon at http://www.underthebasho.com/ for more information!

Thank you!

Don

That's really well said, Alan.  :)  I agree with your thoughts completely. 

The only alternative to Fay's would be to use an "ing":

long night
I distort the globe   (distorting the globe)
with Photoshop

- Fay Aoyagi

This "ing" thing is used a lot and, yet, necessary.  However, this haiku is so much more powerful with "I".  Of course we know the poet is present.  But, in this case, besides being present, the poet is the center of the activity of the phrase.  "Long night" sets the stage nicely.  And when you punch in L2/3, it comes together perfectly - with "I" as the centerpiece.

While "I" is strong, it does not overwhelm the haiku.  That is the key.  It's a balance of powers and how they interact in the haiku that makes the use of "I" more acceptable or less.

Just thinking out loud a bit .....

"D"

one line horizontal the sun sets

:)

"the blind child  reading my poem  in her finger tips" ~ searle

I would have to say, no, Martin ... this poem does not have the qualities of historical hokku (Basho era).  It seems more like a sentence/statement without much for the reader to do.  It's all said and done.  Anyone that is blind must read with their fingertips.  This is the frank and clear truth (about reading).  It's a sweet moment that has a haiku-like quality but not that of hokku.

Just my ponderings - out loud.  :)

I use:

. . .   For a continuum of movement (setting sun etc.) and for longer dream room

—      For a break that is similar to hyphen, a sort of "that is" feeling; & or, general pause; still
         connective but not as much as ellipsis.

;       For a greater disjunction

:       For two parts that are very equal in balance ... two halves that make a whole ... but of equal
        strength ... and also for the greatest disjunction.

And, occasionally, I simply choose one by feeling.  :)

Gene Murtha ... Mike Rehling ... Ron Moss ... so many fine poets.  I'd prefer to name 'most' of them.  Sheila Windsor ... Johannes Bjerg ... Lorin Ford ...

As Sandra points out this amazing poem by Basho;

summer grasses –
all that remains
of warrior's dreams ( I wonder if it should be, "warriors' dreams" or "a warrior's dreams)

Basho, who is in the present, authors a hokku regarding the past, with a deep, rich feeling of lament. "Summer grasses" is engaging the past and present simultaneously -- the "grasses" of then remain today.  The "dreams" of warriors remain today; and yet, the warriors who had the dreams are gone. 

This is a poem based primarily on Basho's imagination and wonderment.  There is nothing left for him to witness but emptiness and grasses.  His feelings/reactions to what he believes took place in the field is the basis of his poem; it's a poem about him - his psychological arrangement.  He has combined the past and present in a subtle, masterful way. There is everything: and yet there is nothing but his mind and his personal dreaming.

Under the Basho goes Kindle:

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Basho-Autumn-2013-ebook/dp/B00F52Z9JU/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1379016433&sr=1-1&keywords=Under+the+Basho+-+Autumn+2013

Under the Basho is online:

Under the Basho,journal of fine Haiku/Hokku/One-Liners/Best Of/Spotlight is up and running for the September 15th issue. Join us in reading fabulous poetry by some of the most talented people in the business.  Take your time and browse.  There is much to see: much to read.

http://www.underthebasho.com/

See you there!

Don

~


thinking of clarity isn't clearly clear and so think not
       
           ~ don baird

when nothing thinks a wilderness
       
           ~ don baird


Enjoyable thread to ponder, though as Richard points out, a bit off topic.  My fault.  I delved in another direction from the topic of "what can haiku poets learn from other forms of poetry?"  I'm glad I did as now we have a few more very interesting comments regarding the spin-off topic of "clarity in confusion/chaos and its balance, if any."

Blessings.  And thanks Richard and all others for posting your thoughts.  Very interesting and fun to explore this very solid, well developed thread.


Don

ps ... Richard: I think your posts prove my point, actually.  Those are clarity and represent some of the best qualities of your creative mind.  You have a crisp and clear thought process . . . in a wilderness way!  :)  :) 

Nicely penned, Peter.

"But me, I want to see if I am writing from some unconscious notions which reading poetry, which hearing about and reading Oppen, for example, may reveal. I want to know what the Objectivists meant when they said "the poem is an object"-- do I or others write, perhaps unknowingly, from that stance, and is it limiting? Does it reflect how I see the world?" ~ peter yovu

The poem, as "an object" (to me), is much like a sponge that can absorb the reader as much as the reader can absorb it.  That inter-mutual connection, while not clear as to how it works, may be clear in the end when the reader connects to the essence of the poem . . . or not.

". . . I think some will say that's exactly what haiku should not do-- that it blurs rather than clarifies. Here too, examples would be helpful.

But with poems which are all too clear, which are easily grasped, which appear not to have been written but to have been constructed-- one does not sense the engagement." ~ peter yovu

...

I'm not sure that "clarity in chaos" necessarily equates to reader understanding.  Clarity, as I envision it, is a reference point of the author's place of being when writing a haiku.  It is a psychological position that centers the poet's keenness, not unlike that of composers, sculptors, artists, and others.  What I am pondering is that the poem itself may remain unclear following a first reading while the poet's clear mind wasn't obscured during the writing of it.  For the reader, there is a process of reading and re-reading for meaning that Dr. Gilbert often references.  Regarding the poet, there is an embodiment of clarity that needs to exist, give or take a few libations! 

Reader misunderstanding may occur.  But, that, in and of itself, is not symptomatic of chaos within the poet.  There is a unique relationship between the poem's accessibility and the reader's resistance to its meaning. 

To compose such a haiku that allows reader accessibility and yet doesn't immediately give the prize away, requires a poet of clarity (clear mind).  This is a much different position than stating the poem itself is easily accessed (clear). 

The winners are:



1st Place:

N.E. Taylor -

camellia floating
in a white cup
snow on mount fuji


2nd Place:

Diana Jeong -

windblown -
a dandelion
colonizes


3rd Place:

William Kenney  - 

downtown
pointing the way
with her cigarette


Honorable Mentions:

In No Order:

Terri French -
first snow . . .
the shape of a grandchild
beneath the quilt                                                     

John Stevenson -
long night
a snow fort
of dreams

Andre Surridge -
moonless night
a cormorant fisherman
tightens the leash


Ernest J Berry -
hospice
a hint of spring
in his window box

Brad Bennett -
butterfly garden
scraps of conversation
float by


There were nearly 1500 poems entered in the contest from around the world.  I was the screening judge and reduced them to just under 50.  Garry Gay, an executive with the HNA, then selected the winners.  It was a long, tedious process as a result of so many entries.  But, the number of poems that were "winner quality" was mind staggering.  There were such wonderful, powerful, and skilled poets participating in the contest that making choices was tough right from the beginning!

As I said at the HNA contest introduction, numerous poems could have taken first place.  The tough part wasn't looking for quality; it was trying to select from a pool of poems that were all bringing so much to the table.

Congrats to all!  See you in a couple of years at the HNA, once again.

Don
Contest Administrator