The Haiku Foundation Forums

1)  We should write true to what we witness;

2)  And, as Cat mentions, a haibun is always an option.

... just thinking out loud

Don

Thanks Lucas.  Welcome aboard!  :)

Don

Haiku Cowboy,

Please give us a first name... thanks.  It's so much nicer to have a real name to chat with, in particular, on a site like this where most everyone is published here or there. 

Thanks for understanding,

Don

@ Gabi ...  thanks for all you do, my friend.  It is very much appreciated.

chopsticks -
the art of eating rice
one grain at a time




edited poem:  ... :)

hahahahaaa... we're going to need a revolving saijiki then... to keep up with the weather pattern. :)   However, "It shouldn't take too much longer before we can come to the determination that the 1998-2007 warm period was more a part of natural variability than a sign of anthropogenic climate change".  As researchers reveal here: http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/category/temperature-history/

NEWS:
Kigo Alert!  "Japan's kigo may be found in the USA in 2025!  Updates soon!!!"   :)  If that happens, we'll have the most authentic kigo on earth!  Don't keep your fingers crossed though. I love to jest!

Don

Thanks so much.  I appreciate your info. I believe I have that one ... I'll have to run upstairs and look through the stacks.   There's so much to know at all times it seems.

:)

Don

Hi Dave,

A great response!  Thank you so much. 

This paragraph summarizes it nicely:

"In Japan, the seasonal word triggers a series of cultural associations which have been developed, refined and carefully transmitted for over a thousand years and which are preserved, transformed and passed on from generation to generation through seasonal handbooks, which remain in wide use today. "

In English, in particular, the USA, while we might have a few seasonal references similar to the Japanese poets, we do not have very many with equivalent depth of meaning.  In short, English seasonal words and kigo are not the same.  I suppose I split the hair one more time! 

It's quite common for us to reference these words such as seasons and various assundering aspects that relate to them as kigo, but in Japan, the meaning of kigo reaches far beyond the pond ripple of of our seasonal words.  Japan's culture, as you've cited, is richly embedded in the use of kigo and its grounding function.  Thousands of years of a way of life has created a depth in their language and culture that reaches light years beyond the "Autumn moon" as we would respond to it in English.  There is a interplay between a the season word and the Japanese culture; and, folks there understand that, clearly.

It would be very difficult for us to pull out a phrase or a word that would have anywhere near the impact a Japanese kigo does.  That's very frustrating in some way and yet, very freeing as well. 

For me, I try to understand the essence of what kigo is, and then include it the best I can in my ELH.  While we do not have as many authentic kigo (if any) as Japan or China, we do have many ways to reference time of day, month and year.  I include them when I can and, most importantly, when I believe I need one.  There are many solid haiku in Japanese as well as English that have not used a kigo.  I suppose, therefore, that it's arguable by some, that the poem isn't truly a haiku.  I'm not sure that's true, cosmically.  I'll let you know in another fifty years!  :)

The impact of a kigo ...

oh snail ...
you were there
yesterday!

... is important.  And, I don't see the use of snail in this haiku any less than it would be in Japanese.  It's possibly our understanding that would make it less, if our understanding of it is less.  Each natural being in Japan seems to have enormous respect, history and implications: and, all of life is celebrated.  In the USA, it's simply a snail.  But, maybe that's ok? I choose to celebrate it.

The zen of it:  a snail is a snail ...  Does it have to have two thousand years of meaning to be a kigo?  Or, the fact that it's a snail, it's summer-time and snails have a reputation ... is that reputation it's kigo?  If so, then the snail reference in this poem is bringing about the history of it for thousands of years.  Snails are lazy:  they are summer kigo (spring too).  They leave trails, they eat leaves and the lawn, they've been in stories and jokes throughout the world.  They are eaten:  they are poisoned.  They are.  We have a kigo! ... ?  Go English. :)

As a side note, the Japanese kigo are in the saijiki.  Even in Japan, it is not considered a kigo unless it is in their book.  I know of no book like that in the USA.  Dr. Gabi Greve has been working on this for years.  Due to her work, we are on the path to having a saijiki and authentic kigo for English haiku.  This is an awesome time for English speaking/writing haijin. It is an awesome time for haijin of any language!  We are coming together in this after years of hard effort from many poets around the world.

Thanks again for your great comment.  I agree with it all and only attempt to add to the thoughts a little bit here.  In that, I do so with the greatest respect and sincerity.  This haiku journey is challenging, but worth it.

all the best,

Don

Recently Dr. Gabi Greve finished the World Kigo Data Base.  It is an amazing accomplishment and one that I, in particular, appreciate greatly.  I love the use of kigo.  I believe it adds so much to the essence of the haiku - to the feeling, mood and resonance.  Most of my haiku contain kigo for those reasons.

Take a look at this work:  (it's stunning body of time and effort)

http://wkdkigodatabase03.blogspot.com/2010/03/saijiki-list.html

What are your thoughts on Kigo?  Do you use them?  Do you think they are important?  Or, do you think they are not needed in ELH?

New Year's eve' ...
sounds of the world celebrating
kigo

Don

Lulu is a real viable way to go.  Their system is solid with lots of guidance ... and affordable set up.  Once your book is complete, it remains in their system to produce on demand.  Robert Wilson publishes his books through them.  I have one of his books and it looks wonderful.  Also, I was published in a book from them, produced by another author/editor.  It looks wonderful too and regarding ordering ... they send the book out within a few days of the order.  It's amazing. 

Watch out for the rest though.  They are expensive times 12.  They are publishing for vanity only.  Lulu is a true publishing company that wants to see your book succeed.

jmho,

Don

It sounds like a great time, honestly.  The story with Tadashi is classic!  Thanks for sharing.  I have yet to go to one of these events.  But, I appreciate your posting it here as a heads up.  Possibly I can make it this year. 

many blessings,

Don

That means AELH! for Lorin.  And Col, SELH for you!  This is a complex endeavor.   :P

Don

Lorin,

I embrace your reasoning fully.   :o

:)

Don

without seeing
I see everything ...
unseen

Fun stuff...

Don

ahhh... yes,

http://happyhaiku.blogspot.com/2000/07/ginkoo-haiku-walk.html

Enjoy!

all my best,

Don

snuggled
beneath the blanket
beneath my dog

... it is a great example of a fantastic haiku.  In Japanese the "my" wouldn't be there literally so it might be (also without the "thes"):

snuggled
beneath blanket
beneath dog

and then,

snuggled
beneath the blanket
beneath the dog

... eliminating the pronoun and staying away from tontoism at the same time.  You original is excellent in English.

Love it..... great seeing ya, too.

all the best,

Don