The Haiku Foundation Forums

Oh Shoot!  I missed the deadline!  Too much work and not enough play!  I'm looking forward to its release and next time, I'm not gonna miss it!!!!!

all my best to everyone who submitted,

Don

Thank you Sandra.  Looks like a couple of great links.  :)

Don

shasei:  Pronounced (very roughly)  "shaw - say - e"  (e as in glee) or just "shaw-say" ... the "e" drops somewhat in sound when spoken in English.

"Sketching from nature" is the general definition of shasei.  Shiki wrote: "If a shasei ku has good taste, it will make a remarkable effect."  

This sketching is an objective sketching without interjecting the poet's own bias into the image.  However, a bias, or subjectivity, may come from the choice of angle, where the poet stands, if he/she waits for a different time of day to write the haiku and so forth.  That's where the poet comes into play in terms of "bias".  However, once those subjective decisions have been made, the chosen scene is a shasei - a sketch from nature ... without word trickery/play and trying to "make it mean something profound".  It's nature:  it's already profound and so are the mysteries within.

just my two cents for the glossary ...

Don

it's become a midwife's
red right hand...
maple leaf

It's curious as to why "left" didn't write it this way:

it's become a midwife's
right hand ...
red maple leaf

To me, that would have cinched it.  But, as it stands, it feels awkward, though less so in some way as compared to "right".

"Right" on the other hand, as mentioned, has an awkward rhythm to it and is lacking in anything really interesting.  I do like simple observations ... but I don't think the poem settles well there either.

To me:  they're a tie!  No vote for either!  Let Basho call it!  :)

Don

Hi Grace,

I think she means that when "night" is used with other words ...  ie:  Spring night ... summer night ... night in summer ... Autumnal night ... and so on.

Gabi will probably come on to respond.  But, I was thinking out loud and thought I'd share.

:)

That sounds great!  I think you'll attract quite a few folks to Seattle.  It's a great time of year there with many things to see and do ....... and ..... haiku!  The accomodations are very nice.  We booked our room and we're set to go.  The employees are very friendly and helpful as well.  Lets hope for a 150!!!   8)

Don

ps ... and yes, they are honoring HNA (corrected, thanks Michael!) prices at the hotels already!  That's great because my wife likes to plan and book things months ahead of time.   ::)  lol

Hey Michael,

How many folks generally attend this event?  I would imagine somewhere between 75 and a 100?  Anyway, it sounds like fun and I'm looking forwarding to being there.

Don

See you there, Michael!  Hotels look great!  Thanks for posting.  We were going to make reservations this week but hadn't determined which hotel would be best.  You've helped out a lot here with the two you have brought to the table.  They both look wonderful!

a Basho's journey ...
more than one frog
in the pond!

thanks,

Don

Hi Josie,

Kigo are very particular in that they are not simply words but rather, resonances.  A Japanese kigo, while a season word, is much more than a word or season in itself ... it's bigger than life, as they say in English.  Kigo represent a philosophy, a culture and more.  Kigo provide layers and layers of rich, cultural meaning, and as a result, retains meaningful, lasting resonance.

There are other very powerful words often referred to as keywords.  Certain keywords seem to carry equal weight as their counterparts, kigo.  Choosing and including these words wisely result in much more resonant haiku than without them.  There are some fantastic haiku that use keywords and can be found at the World Kigo Database, Dr. Gabi Greve. There is a section there called Urban Haiku.  I think you will find those very interesting.

Again, a fabulous thread at hand here.

Don

A fabulous thread, already!

Don

Thanks chibi, for your thoughts.  Yes, I still think the math of "limited" language to create new poems in such a small venue is there.  But, what is more frightening, really, is the thought that writing from the wrong intention, will create an uninspired poem.  So, while we ponder this thought/study there are side aspects such as inspiration and "us forcing a haiku" versus the "haiku coming to us ... revealing itself to us. 

The experiement (once we hit ten thousand versions, will prove itself in terms of how many haiku can be written with one line already taken up with fixed kigo.  But, there are so many other aspects that are going to come up which will reveal to us that at least much of the haiku must come from personal experience and of witnessing an event - written in the now or from memory.

Interesting stuff.  I cherish haiku and it's true process.  It is an interesting study however, to search for its limitations, if any.

Thanks again chibi,

Don

The leap from "August cicadas" and "an ocean in a suitcase" is astounding ... not something readily found in nature!  :) 

I just returned from San Diego ... on the beachfront, over looking the ocean ... walking on the sand ... watching the seagulls ... unfortunately I was not well for the week I was there ... but still, right?  I would definitely (in a literal way if possible) pack up the ocean and bring it home with me.  I don't think the cicadas would replace the sound of the waves that well, so I would prefer to pack up the ocean, only.  Possibly, I could just take one of the smallest waves?  I would think ...

in a bottle
the to and fro
of waves

I love this poem and, honestly, am at a (rare) loss of words.  I believe the poem is felt/experienced more than read:  it's appealing to the right brain as much, if not more, than the left ... a grand space to be.

Thanks for posting, Jim.  I enjoyed the read ... the pondering ... and the feeling.

Don

My greatest concern, chibi, is that this forum is an open forum - to the public.  This is not a private forum and therefore, all of your work could be considered (by some publishers) as published.  Also, some folks are offering slight edit suggestions... possibly you would want to move this to the Share Poetry or Mentoring section which are private forums ... and folks would be even more comfortable in offering edits and suggestions - the very essence of those particular forums.

You have some fine haiku here (and a haibun worth publishing, one day) that might be excluded from a publishing opportunity because of being posted on a public, open forum.

It's possible, the Mentoring or Share Haiku forums might be the better choices for you to continue with this adventure.

just pondering out loud here, chibi,

best,

Don

Well Alan, I wasn't talking about coercion.  LOL  I was referencing a "slightly" lighter side of things, actually!  LOL  (just kidding with ya)

I always appreciate your wit.

Don

Hey Chibi,

Great.  Now, I have an idea.  Will you write one hundred of these?  Same kigo?  "the moon" .  Then if we can get four other people to write one hundred each, when finished, we reveal them and see how many come to close match.  From there, we can create a formula that might predict, based on the complexity of the fragment/kigo ... how many close matches we will have on another five hundred as well as extrapolate it into a formula that would apply to ten thousand ...?  Of course, I'm just a poet and martial teacher ... but surely there is a mathmetician that can help us with the stats.  That would be cool. 

On the other hand... lets play a game.  On another board, Share Haiku, I have posted a kigo.  Lets each write five poems to it for over the next ten days.  And then, add another kigo, and do the same again.  Lets see how creative we can be with our phrases while we all use the same kigo!  Another challenging, but fun way to study writing and haiku.  The more folks involved, the more interesting this will become!  :)

Please join us there.

Don

ps... ok cat, we're on.  It's time to play! and learn.