The Haiku Foundation Forums

Hope it's a great success!   8)

Hi Norman,

I will for sure.  Thanks!

Will do!

I ordered it yesterday.  Looking forward to reading it.

Thanks, Alan, for the update!  Much appreciated.

Yes ... hodo, in the end, is extremely important here.  I wasn't able to make that evident enough in the version I posted.  Quite the puzzle - Japanese to English.  It's just as hard however, English to Japanese!

LOLL :o

matsutake
it looks more like a red pine
with its ragged top

I think this would infer that the more ragged the top, the more it looks like a pine.  jmho

Don

It's wonderful!!! Congratulations!

Yes, I understand.  But;

Webster:  ego: "the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world".

Oxford:  ego: "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance".

These two definitions probably apply to what Mr. Spiess was referencing.

all the best,

Don

Ego: "a person's sense of self-esteem or self-importance."

I posit that if we look at ego in terms of the general definition above, it would be true that an "excess of such a thing" would be an inhibitor, at minimum, to the methodology of natural writing.  There is no question in my mind that a flatulant ego dulls the senses of "what is" within the Tao.  This dulling, through a magnified self importance occurs in athletic performance, music performance, writing poetry and so forth. There's much evidence these days that validates the thoughts "to lose ones self is to find ones self"; "to lose ones skill is to find ones skill."

It might be impossible, at the mercy of a self absorbed ego, to be in tune with nature including, and especially, in a balanced synergy of the human/nature interactive experience (which is inseparable).



edit spelling ...

Quote from: onecloud on March 04, 2012, 08:02:11 AM
I am suggesting the poem or, (experience),  may begin with the personality of the poet.

marty

Interesting you mentioned this ... I was pondering a similar thought last night - the reader's importance in relationship to the poem's meaning ... and also, what era the poem was written versus what era the poem is read ...

Quote from: Gabi Greve on March 03, 2012, 03:18:53 PM

For me Japanese haiku  is not about personality, not about improving my big ego,
but on the contrary, trying to loose my ego in the nature of things.

Gabi

I agree ... :) "Trying to lose my ego in the nature of things" ... Or, in simple terms - just losing myself!  :)

yesterday's storm
all that seemed permanent
toppled

Adelaide


toppled lego
another failed attempt
at world domination

Alan Summers

domination over
the priest removes
his dog collar

John McManus

collar -
the spring fever
of lipstick

Don

I think, Gabi, that when a poet taps into the object's essence within the creation/transformation perspective, the poem is much more powerful than a statement of nouns or objects.  I suppose, all things are objects but, to me, it is how the poet handles the object(s) that counts the most.  Does the poet simply point out an object(s) or ponder a bit deeper as to the energy of that object and its relationship to the rest of ALL.  Does the poet see and reveal the interactivity of things?

Everything is caught up in the acts of construction and destruction.  It is the comings and goings of things.  In that, they also react (interact) - with/to themselves as well as to all things around.  I think haiku that brings a bit of that flavor out are stronger, more in tune with the natural (nature in a way) than those that focus on the "is of being an object".  I suggest that Basho was onto something as he began to stress the "activity of the natural" instead of the "presence (object) of the natural".

The two poems were thrown together rather quickly for reference as to what I was chatting about.  Of course, with a bit of extra time, I could find many poems as witnesses supporting my thoughts/intentions - especially from Basho.

Thanks.  It's always great seeing you Gabi.

Don

Larry/Gabi ... to ponder with you for a moment:

Another aspect of kigo is the resonance it sets up between the poet, poem and reader.  Once the reader finishes the poem, ponders the context of things in relation to the kigo, the haiku resonates within the reader as he/she, in some mysterious way, finishes the poem internally.  Without the kigo, this will not happen.  There are no keywords, for example, that set up a comensurate, rich density that kigo do as adequately/comparatively.   

The kigo provides an arena of "the unsaid".  This voiceless arena is where much of the haiku reveals its meaning ... or finds its meaning within the reader himself/herself according to how a particular reader resonates with the kigo itself.  A unique aspect of this situation is that the haiku will be quite a different experience according to the background of the reader.  One who deeply relates to the kigo at many levels will indeed have a different experience in reading and relating to the haiku than someone who has little to none. 

sunny day
the baseball remains
motionless

harvest moon
the mantis remains
motionless

The second poem really has two autumn kigo.  The first has none.  Of course, the first is overall rather uninteresting which doesn't help it.  The second: harvest moon sets a stage.  It relates an entire scene to the reader that resonates with the reader's personal experience of life and autumn within that life.  There's much unsaid that's being said in line one.  The mantis reaffirms that this is an autumn kigo haiku but brings about, though motionless, additional activity within the poem.  This is not an object oriented poem but rather one of activity - the action and continuum of creation/transformation.