The Haiku Foundation Forums

Quote from: Alan Summers on December 29, 2011, 06:49:36 AM
Here are four haiku from Scott Metz that showcase other realities:


                                   like
                                   sho
                                   ot
                                   ing
                                   fish
                                   Gaza



only american deaths count the stars



my complete lack of patriotism full moon



                           the milky way . . .
                           we start to discuss
                           Pac-Man strategies

What an excellent collection of political haiku those are Alan. I particularly liked the expansiveness of the pac-man haiku. It reflects on American popular culture as a sub-textual messages for interpersonal relationships and social approaches to 'other' (In this case - consume it /or outwit it /or kill it). It does it from a perspective which situates such small world concerns against a cosmic scale and so exposes their essential insignificance. The whole succeeds in carrying a lighthearted and playful awareness in an image of two people in an emotionally intimate relationship laying together on the grass at night, playing with the stars. Beautifully done.

I was also taken with "my complete lack of patriotism full moon" which has a similar effect in that it contrasts nationalist borders with the view from the moon, which recognises none. We are catapulted into space to view the earth as 'other'; which takes us beyond our nationalistic adherences into a cosmic consciousness point of view.

I have rarely seen these contrasts of scale done so well. Thank you for showing them. 


Sue

Quote from: Alan Summers on December 28, 2011, 11:39:13 AM
Hi Sue,

There are a lot of quality poetry collections, not just poems, about illness, that retain humour, despite an often desperate situation.  As poets, should we shy away?

Alan

Absolutely not Alan. The ability to see the funny side of even the most desperate situations, to make humour out of tragedy with a carefully timed witty remark, is a beloved British tradition. Some of the best deaths I've been to were accompanied by laughter.

laying out the fat man
not big enough for a bow


last rites
he asks to be forgiven
for not standing up


a wake
filled with malapropisms
we couldn't tell before


Sue

This is interesting Alan. I think that there is a tendency to sentimentalize haiku, perhaps it is easier to be blunt in senryu. I find the 'cancer' verses (which are frequent winners in Kukai) particularly mawkish. There is nothing noble about cancer, it is more often than not smelly, ugly, protracted, and painful. Tragic it may be but to present it, or the relative at the bedside, as *nobly enduring* is usually very far from the truth. If we are to show the dark side of what-it-is-to-be-human may I make a plea for emotional honesty.

crows nest
taking up a bed
in St Jude's ward

longest night
hoping this breath
will be the last

not a breath
in the space between
death rattles

lavender oil added to the dressing tray

waves on shingle
her husband asks
how much longer


Sue

Can do. Message me. What did you have in mind?

one touch
again the child
pinned

rank socks . . .
the smell of summer
at the laundromat
                       ~ Don

laundromat window-
one garbage bag falls
from the shopping cart
                      ~ Vida

cart of fruit
  alien...
on the city sidewalk
                     ~ Kizen


side walk slide slip the crab waltz boogie step
                                        - Sue

What interesting intelligent discussions you have here! I hope it is Ok to add my thoughts after so long?

The discussion derailed around the 'logical mind' issue, which is understandable. This relies on a distinction between logical/non-logical which isn't really helpful in understanding what is going on. I think that what Martin is saying is that poetry which appeals not merely to our *language* addresses us at a deeper level. That is, poetry which functions not merely as signifiers, but which engages the semiotic (and forgive me, I'm very rusty on semiotics) signified-signified connections of our personal non-language mental imagery. Or at least that is the closest I can get to what he is saying. There is nothing 'illogical' per se about that process, it simply follows our individual mental connections - which may or may not appear logical to others however there is an internal logical process which we ourselves might or might not understand.

I think this is how kigo work. We have, with a kigo which is meaningful to us, multiple mental associations which present themselves to the internal screen and helpfully fill in the picture upon which the associated *signs* of the rest of the haiku fill in the detail. Martin's objection to the formulaic seasonal reference/followed by two lines of foreground imagery (I assume) is because the formula addresses this process directly but is more often than not employed by poets not yet sufficiently proficient to do it well or meaningfully. I think he is asking us, as poets, to find ways to engage that internal process in more creative ways.

Sue