The Haiku Foundation Forums

Quote from: Peter Yovu on May 26, 2011, 11:13:24 AM
                                              How Do you Spell Haiku?

Have you read Martin Lucas' essay "Haiku as Poetic Spell"? What he discusses there has great relevance for what we've been looking at, and beyond. What I've been referring to as "sound image"--  (how a poem is experienced or felt prior to being taken up by the conscious mind), he calls "Poetic Spell". They are not exactly the same thing, in part because while Lucas speaks of the importance of sound (including, and emphasizing, rhythm) he also includes image, and says "It's possible to approach the Poetic Spell through both imagery and language". But he seems to give primacy to sound.

So one way to look at what we've been calling "vigorous language" (or "living language"), is to say it is language which casts a Poetic Spell. Of course, Lucas' essay is all about what that is.

Here's Jim Kacian's poem again, with some of Lucas' criteria for Poetic Spell below.

          the high fizz nerve the low boom blood dead silence

There is a "significant contribution of word music/language effects, notably rhythm"

It is "essentially irrational—prose paraphrase not possible"

It "cannot be analyzed in terms of information content alone"

It is "an oral form, readily memorable"

He gives other elements as well, but from these alone, I daresay he would include Kacian's haiku with others, such as Duro Jaiye's

       hatless the seeds of winter in the morning sky

and

       sharpening this night of stars distant dogs

by Stuart Quine,  as casting a Poetic Spell.

He says: "That's what I mean by Poetic Spell. Words that beat; words that flow". And, "This is what I want from haiku: something primitive; something rare; something essential. . . . It's not the information content that counts, it's the way that information is formed, cooked, and combined. Poetic spells don't tell us anything, they are something, they exist as objects of fascination in their own right". (My italics).

By the way, Lucas presents all this in opposition to what he calls the "International Formula" approach to haiku. But to learn more about that, you'll need to read his essay.

So, what do you think about this orientation to haiku? Or to any of the points Martin Lucas makes? Do you know of haiku which fit his view of the Poetic Spell?

His essay is included in Evolution, the latest volume from the Red Moon Anthology series. Or you can nibble the link below and find a version which, however, does not include his criteria, ("battle positions") contrasting the "International Formula" with Poetic Spell.

http://www.poetrysociety.org.nz/node/456

collar -
the spring fever
of lipstick

Don


lipstick
at the murder scene
plum blossom

Sue

plum blossoms
the soft fragrance
of his aftershave

Adelaide

aftershave
cheapened by overuse:
morning ritual

Matthew

ritual flower
the student delivers
symbolic devotion

marty-

this example is brilliant,
show us more
marty

Hi Darrell,

Quote from: Darrell on August 11, 2011, 05:50:28 PM
how will I know when i'm ready to move to advanced mentoring?

thanks, darrell

just do it.

maybe you will get more comment,
however Don is right.    sometimes there just isn't much traffic. 
and sometimes there is so much traffic people just miss new post..

marty

I love all the images in the wrestling match

you wrestling with with truth, art, form, and experience.
marty

Quote from: chibi575 on June 27, 2011, 06:58:46 AM
The literary process of poetry for me usually starts with written words in my pocket journal.  I try to adopt/adapt the "once written - once done" approach as in Japanese calligraphy... the stroke can not be undone, whatever brings the ink to paper becomes.

Always a student of poetry, I do admit to re-writes; but, I also admit these "edits" rarely refine, but, more often than not, define yet another poem.  I have a hypothesis (if I'm using that word correctly) that the emotional energy dissapates exponentially proportional to the distance (time-space) from the moment (conceptional awareness).  That therein lies risk of adjacent energies (distractions/retractions) to fold into the original moment as if (giving the illusion) of the original.  I am struggling with detecting and dissapating these energies.

As such, I wrestle with my muses (can be fun if done with a playful intent) as to which is original moment and which is not.

Let me give example:

Journal entry scribbled while walking (muses in tow) along the beach at low tide near midday:

surf : me
seafoam : native muse
folds the ocean's : Japanese muse
edge: Japanese muse

More wrestling now a two on one with that twin muses: old Japanese, the other of native origin (I, while sitting at a cafe, the half-way point on my low-tide walk):


seafoam
folds the summer
at the ocean's edge

I headlock the Japanese muse... with "too many repeats of 'the'"  but with a twisting-fold the Japanese muse breaks the hold countering with "no Engrish articles in nihongo" tags the other muse who then body slams with "good you added 'summer'... the Japanese muse bows from the sidelines.  With another twist recovering from the slam using a "short-long-short wrist lock and bar on the native muse.  A double tap to release without a successful tag, I carry the match:

summer surf
seafoam folds the ocean's
edge

Respectful bows all around.

Yet, now, breakfast on the day after the match while sipping coffee, listening to the whir of laptop cooling fans, I ponder museless:

summer surf:
folds of seafoam
at ocean's edge


ciao...

on the topic of is rewrite in error?
it is what it is.
I find my journal notes to raw to please my own sense of form,
rewrite is usually
delete
delete
keep
delete
restate

it's all good Chibi
marty

The white snow melting
Under the sun's warm embrace
Is still passive grace

The lamb's still waiting
In deserted arid space
Became passion's face

Quote from: colin stewart jones on March 06, 2011, 01:50:49 PM
hi gang

There are many Buddhists among the haiku community but there seems to be far more people who do not overtly  hold to any religion or belief system. I'll nail my colours to the cross (mixing metaphors as I go along) and say I am a Christian.
Even though not claiming to belong to any one faith or belief is there a feeling among haijin that there is a sense of something bigger, or am I way off the mark?

I look forward with interest to your comments, replies, beliefs and philosophies.
Here is a small offer from myself for "a sense of something bigger"


blue sky
before me
beyond me


A Seal Snorts out the Moon, Cauliay Aberdeen,2007

col :)

This is marty,
for my part the poet is Wm Blake's Los.
so my part is to reveal the creator.
one reason I use an artist name.

thank you cat,
marty

Gabi,
thank you again,  I will note your instructions.
marty 

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/photo.php?fbid=211983722149112&set=a.208745329139618.61265.208652469148904&theater

I am a spiritualist who is born a christian; studied hinduism, buddhisim, natural and aboriginal religions.
I am moved by religious imagery from many religions. In this image I present the turtle as the universe the cosmic consciousness is represented as the eye of the creator, in which the maddona sits in a buddhist pose.
the text I placed with it addresses beginning and is about my personal relationship with my mother who gave birth to me on april 16.

this is marty,
thank you, I believe I can do that

how do you insert an image?

thank you John,

I have never seen haiku titled, I just wondered if there is a rule about it  :)

marty

hello,
this is marty smith. I present my work on line as onecloud, and print my own chap books.

When I submit a poem to a publisher, I am generally inclined to believe that I improve the poem by taking a moment to title it.

should a haiku be titled?                 
and, what is the difference between a title and a first line? The title may add meaning to the poem. Does it then become a four lined micro poem?

I appreciate your comment.  Marty

nature's force is aw inspiring.

we can't look away from an erupting volcano,

when a big event happens it captures our collective attention,

yet nature is always powerful even when still or quite.
i feel the power of a river while in a canoe floating with the current
steering only, and life buzzing and popping all about above and under.

I love to sit at the base of an old tree
the power rising into the canopy, traversing time also,
smelling the earth, things falling from above when the air moves


deep roots stand the oak
where the birds nest in their time
in leaf expressed grace

yes.
I am born and lived my life so far in the great lakes basin of north america

it is an ancient glacial basin resulting in the five great lakes. the worlds largest fresh water basin.
many forces of time and traffic of ice result in famous features,

to look at georgin bay at sun set for 20 min will revel personality in nature.
the thundering roar at Niagara falls overwhelms one with the river

the spirit fills the sense

edmond fitzgerald
sank with all hands one dark night
superior lake

I sailed myself on the columbia line
how the rivers connect the lakes connect my memories of dreams  and experience,
and my imagination going to sea and the world from my great lakes.

The lakes whisper to you
and they ignore you

other north american features carry legions .
I have walked on both divides.

I have said enough for now.
the red woods must have some haiku in them