The Haiku Foundation Forums

Hi Peter,

You were perfectly clear. ;-)

I was just comparing my own decisions where each haiku were on a par, but a favourite just edged out.  Mine being Robert's, and your choice being Peggy's.

all my best,

Alan

Quote from: Peter Yovu on October 09, 2011, 06:04:50 PM
Alan, I guess it wasn't clear, but I did come down in favor of Peggy's poem-- based on a slightly higher score for originality.

I agree. ;-)

It's also interesting that both haiku are getting votes, despite one being very modern in take, and Bob's being an almost traditional 20th Century Western haiku, yet still catching the eye of some of us. ;-)

Alan

Quote from: John McManus on October 12, 2011, 10:07:19 AM
Thanks for joining in Vida.

I enjoyed your post immensely and found your information on the exhibit very interesting, as I'm sure others will. 

warmest,
John

All good points, and I like Phil's because if you can't remember the phrase part or the fragment part, then this helps.

What is good about this, though, is that when certain anthologies come asking for submissions on particular themes, you'll have them cross-referenced.  Don't just go for keywords, but what the theme(s) of the haiku etc... touch on.

Alan

Quote from: PAllen on October 12, 2011, 08:04:37 AM
How 'bout an electronic recipe box in the form of a single Word document (& a backup) with all haiku in it. Each is titled with "catch" word(s), i.e. season, time of day, mood, etc.; the title may have several catch words.  A search can then be performed when looking for that special verse.  Also consider notes w/each verse to track any submitted / accepted / rejected.

Phil

I particularly like Peter's statement:
Peggy Lyle's poem is notable, I feel, because like a number of poems she was writing toward the end of her life, it has her stamp, yes, but a stamp she was doing different things with than she had been doing for many years before. (Some many argue otherwise).

Peggy could have rested on her laurels and been lazy, but as a true writer, she kept at her craft and kept relevant.  I for one argue for her case, to keep fresh and relevant.

I personally felt these two poems were on a par, although reading into Peter's comments, I feel, like me, Peter should be pushed into a corner, and vote, even if that vote is a micron's distance apart.

But I still feel both poems need another ten years to properly put them into perspective.

Alan

Quote from: Peter Yovu on October 09, 2011, 02:53:59 PM
First of all, thanks to John for bringing the seashell game back. I'd like to see it continue. One way this  could happen would be for John at some point to invite someone else to present a pair of poems, and keep that going, Virals style.

About these two. I think "wild roses" has Robert Spiess's stamp all over it. It's the kind of thing he could do well. It is both personal and impersonal at the same time. It is warmly objective. The use of the word "tarry" has his smile in it, and I'm sure he liked the succession of ticking t's it added to.

Peggy Lyle's poem is notable, I feel, because like a number of poems she was writing toward the end of her life, it has her stamp, yes, but a stamp she was doing different things with than she had been doing for many years before. (Some many argue otherwise). Of poems that appeared in Roadrunner, "Osiris" is not my favorite, though I like the brief cascade of words, each carrying very different contexts that fall through each other and land on the earth: the mythological context of "Osiris" turning to the Latinate,  somewhat thought-bound notion of "reconstructed", turning to the vivid sensual flower. Leaping poetry.

If, based on the scoring system used by the Iron Chef series-- I award points for taste, presentation and originality, I consider both poems about equal for the first two categories, but go a couple of ticks higher for the originality of PWL's poem. Both poets, nonetheless, are mighty good cooks.

Well, first of all we are talking about haiku from two completely different eras. 

Osiris
reconstructed
buttercups

Peggy Willis Lyles

Publication credit: Roadrunner issue X:2 (2010); Roadrunner 11.1
-February 2011 (Favourites from 2010)



wild roses
tarrying beside one
touched by time

Robert Spiess

Publication credits:
"wild roses": From "noddy," by Robert Spiess (Modern Haiku Press, 1997); selected for "The Red Moon Anthology," (Red Moon Press, 1997); selected for "Favorite Haiku" Vol. 3, H.F. Noyes (Red Moon Press, Pond Frog Editions, 2000)


Both haiku have distinctive styles, and while Bob's style suggests it was written last century, I don't feel that that is a problem.

I think ten years from now, we'd be better able to compare the two styles.

On a purely personal level, I enjoy and appreciate both haiku, and would not be interested in stating if one was better than the other.  They are to me, perfect examples of well-crafted haiku, very different in nature, but full of resonance and vertical axis.

I'd be happy to see them in an anthology together without finding that incongruous, not because I have eclectic tastes, but the fact they are both beautiful in their own, and both important for haiku history.

If I was pushed for a vote, should I vote the modern haiku written by Peggy?  As much as I admire that poem, Bob's haiku nudges minutely ahead.

My vote is for Bob Spiess.

all my best,

Alan

Hi Julie,

Is this a continuing on from this thread?
http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/new-to-haiku-free-discussion/goal-setting/

Are all these poems published and then put on twitter?  Or are some or all of them in twitter magazines like 4x20 for instance?

You certainly have enough haiku to consider for a collection, or a collection competition:
http://www.snapshotpress.co.uk/contests/book_awards/guidelines.htm

Manuscripts submitted in category C should comprise of 60–100 short poems. These may be of any, or of mixed, genre, and may include free verse, prose poems, monostichs, sonnets, villanelles, haiku, tanka, senryu, sequences, etc., providing each individual poem does not exceed 25 lines.

Index or record cards are a good idea, and can be loosely alphabetized.  If you can clear a large space, maybe the lounge floor, or bedroom floor, you can work out themes.

How many are purely urban, and purely nature or Natural History?  Subdivide them into categories.

If you write Natural History or nature poems, divide them into birds, animals, trees etc...

I did have trouble organising my second collection, but thankfully my editor and publisher is doing that all for me.  But I know it's not easy when it's your own work.

I spent four years organising my first collection, so if you aren't in a hurry, there's nothing to worry about.  If you are keen to enter a collection competition, then I'd start buying and filling in those index cards.

Handwriting is a good way to absorb the poems all over again.  Or you could just put them in a word.doc with two columns, and paperslice them afterwards.

all my best,

Alan

Quote from: Julie B. K. on October 08, 2011, 09:15:51 PM
I just realized that I have more than 300 haiku & short form poems out on Twitter.  What is the best way to organize them?  ???   I can't seem to wrap my mind around how to structure the collection.  I used to just log one poem per Word document in a Poetry folder on my computer when I wrote longer forms, but that seems excessive for short forms.  Maybe one haiku per index card & throw them all in a recipe box?

How do you organize your haiku?  Thanks in advance for sharing.   :)

Julie B. K.

Hi Peter,

It depends on what you mean, from what approach etc...

For me I come from it as a reader first, like Joe or Jo Public; then an informed reader (I hope so after close study of haikai literature for almost 20 years); as a fellow editor; and as an advocate of haikai as a literary form, and supporting a publication which acts as an ambassador for what haiku is, for what it can be, for furthering its direction, as no literary form can stand still.

Of course we have great examples of past history from Classic Japan, and 575 syllable haiku practitioners like O. Mabson Southard, and the list goes on.  But its strength, in my opinion, rightly or wrongly, lies in its future strengths, approaches, experimentation being constantly in development, whether successful or not, as long as it's a successful failure, or a well-throught out experiment.

I'm keen on reader development, not just within the haiku community in all its forms, but new audiences, and those who despair of longer poetry or default to simple rhymes or doggerel.

I truly believe haiku can be a standard bearer to those audiences ostracised either by themselves, by schools and other educational facilities, or by aloof poets, who may never visit or revisit the rewarding power that is poetry (in all its forms).

About Roadrunner (http://www.roadrunnerjournal.net/pages_all/aboutroadrunner.htm):
Roadrunner is a quarterly online journal seeking to publish the best and most diverse in English-language haiku (including senryu, zappai and short poetry inspired by haiku).

There is so much that is right in this incredibly simple statement (forgetting terms that might be unfamiliar to some potential readers).  Best and diverse, inclusive, widening the idea of what haiku is, and enabling readers, hopefully, and inspiring writers now, and future.

Roadrunner may have its fans and detractors, and I would never label myself eclectic as that term has been so much abused it feels like a cliché, but it showcases, and it pushes boundaries, yet does not exclude certain styles of haiku (I hope).

Just selecting some poems, otherwise this would be a very long post, and focusing on Roadrunner issue Issue 11.2:


there in the trees to begin with just before and just after love

Richard Gilbert


you watch those fingerprints tumble downriver

John Martone


an old word connects to a new one
the fame the dead
knew

Gary Hotham


celebrity
genitals
a preface

John Stevenson

amidst the black churning of stars my shudder

Jim Kacian


self-scrutiny
as deep
as the snorkel
allows

George Swede

a vast field
of clover
in defense of the realm

Patrick Sweeney

rhymes our small town
the to-fro pendulum of the Earth
winding

paul m.

testing my power real peaches in an imaginary winter

Jim Kacian



moon cradled you recall the voice of another I might be the audience

Richard Gilbert


In the incandescence let me let me read me to you

paul pfleuger jr


for all these storms and streams no north of the present

Philip Rowland


All these poems were deliberately picked without knowing who the author was, and I could have easily most of the poems, but that seemed silly as we have the magazine itself to read the rest.

These poems, and all the others cast a spell on me whether I understood them or not.  Is that a crime?  I think as a reader I have the right to like what I read, sometimes like what I know, and sometimes know what I like, irrespective of any peer pressure.

As a reader I found reading these yet again a truly rewarding experience that made me feel good, and stretched my understanding of what I think poetry is all about, or what haiku within poetry, is all about.

All my identities enjoyed reading these poems. ;-)

Alan

Quote from: Peter Yovu on October 08, 2011, 09:05:16 AM
Alan, would you be willing to expand a bit on the importance of Roadrunner?

I cannot emphasize enough what a fine magazine this is, and its importance.

Alan

Thanks Don.

Still a few things to tweak.  It was a nightmare, especially with that Trojan virus that was in the old webcode for over a year, it really delayed things.

Just goes to show how passionate we are about haiku.  6am finish, as we were all burnt out, and I had a job first thing later that morning. ;-)

I hope everyone loves the new look, and the contents, and looking forward to even more fine work for the December issue which will come out the first of the month now the webcode has been streamlined.

all my best,

Alan

NFTG is now live featuring haibun by David Cobb, article by Alexis Rotella and an interview with and essay by Penny Harter; plus loads of great poetry!

http://www.notesfromthegean.com/

I quoted this weblink on Haiku Society of America's Facebook page.

I really liked the series.

Is it gendai?  Not sure about that, but it is fresh and original, but rooted in classic Japanese haiku traditions, just like gendai. ;-)

Alan

Quote from: nobodhi on October 07, 2011, 07:52:38 AM
for the 1st time in many years, the nobel committee conferred its prize for literature upon a poet : thomas transtromer

here's a suite of his haiku ( rather gendai ¿ no ? )
http://www.samizdateditions.com/issue3/transtromer1.html

_______________________________________
( ¿ is there any way to embed a link within text ? )

After several days with a 3am or 530am finish, Colin is taking a day off, and then the new issue will be out Friday night or small hours UK time.

He's taking the day off as it's his girlfriend's birthday, and there's dedication, and there's dedication, and then there's your girlfriend's birthday!

Alan aka Linked Forms Editor, Notes from the Gean

It could be a bit of both, but certainly both Basho and haiku sell.  I hope some of those purchasers are inspired to read more widely after that.

It's a good sign, especially when you get to see what Target calls haiku, or this strange term HAIKUS. ;-)

Alan

Quote from: nobodhi on October 05, 2011, 06:15:09 PM
Jane Hirshfield recently became one of the first authors for Amazon to feature in their new series of original content, Singles. The series features works too long for short story and too short for novel length.  She sent them a lecture on Basho, which they retitled as Heart of Haiku.  Guess what ?  It sold 7,000 copies in its first month... ( Jane has stated she has reason to believe much of the popularity is for haiku, rather than her own name ... ) ...

And for those who say haiku unfamiliar to the masses, now Target has dunked into the pond
http://blog.seattlepi.com/bookpatrol/2011/05/09/target-brings-haiku-to-the-masses/ ... I'm not saying they're 100% savvy ... just that you can't say the word haiku ain't Greek to them ...

Thanks for the kind words Gary. ;-)

Glad you want to show children and young people what haiku can do, and joining in trying to get teachers to understand the power of haiku composing.  It touches so many other disciplines, not just creative writing, but self-belief, a strength to stand alone, non-judgement in social situations, and the list goes on.

Teachers stuck on syllable counting, because it sounds useful, are narrowing the scope of our youth.  It's a shame, but the more of us working with schools in one way or another can only be beneficial on so many levels.

Also renku is a fantastic device as it teaches people to work and think together, and respect each other's views.

Love your breakdown of haiku (and other disciplines) and the translation aspect too.  ;-)

all my best,

Alan

Quote from: nobodhi on October 05, 2011, 10:29:29 AM
thank you, Alan.  I've been keenly admiring of your work for many years & this recent slice is very nourishing, indeed ! As Sun Ra sang, " space IS the place " ...

———————————————————————————————————————————————————


Confession :  I don't blog. And my motto with the Internet is the Jewel Thief's Motto : (Three G's) ...  "get in , get the jewels, get out."  I'm more of a twitterer. ...  ♫♩♪♬♩ ...

However, I think forums are the best part of the Internet.  ( Thank you, Haiku Foundation ! )

Anyways, I broke form this morning ...  and  blogged! Here's what happened.  See, every week RedRoom.com. gives its members a topic, (with a  prize). This week, it's "If you were poet laureate ... " So I took the opportunity to sound off about haiku in education.
Here's my blog ———————————
http://goo.gl/4hIHG

One thing I touched on, of possible interest, here, for further discussion, is  how to persuade teachers to adopt haiku into their curriculum.  Here's an excerpt :

---

_________________________________________________

Quote
... [ Kids are ] so much closer, already -- & they're our future. [ Haiku ] could teach them so much more than counting syllable (silly bells) — in fact, offering a whole Swiss Army knife of multiple skill sets, such as

    • critical thinking — by learning to READ haiku
    • creative writing — by learning to COMPOSE haiku *
    • mindfulness — by learning to EXPERIENCE haiku ( for "mindfulness" ok to substitute "emotional intelligence" )
    • empiricism — by learning to OBSERVE without judgment from the direct evidence of the senses
    • letting the heart dance — an under-emphasized essential to life

* writing could include senryu, for empathy; haibun, for journalling — plus also be coupled with ink brush / photography / photoshop for haiga ...

I'd also include literary translation for kids — as is already being fostered at Center for Art In Translation's http://catranslation.org/poetry-inside-out Poetry Inside Out .  This could include not only haiku from Japan and other nations — but with kids learning to translate haiku by themselves and their classmates.

Please let me know what you think. Thank you.

Here's a selection of space haiku by me, and space related haiku by other writers:
http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/share-haiku/space/

all my best,

Alan