The Haiku Foundation Forums

Haiku Commentary had a prompt challenge on Twitter that revolved around the theme of "dust." Here are our favorite submissions and commentary on them.

rising dust . . .
the old argument
resettled

— Marion Clarke (Ireland)


More haiku at:
https://haikucommentary.wordpress.com/2020/07/27/haiku-about-dust/

Malcolm said:
I'm interested in how choice of literary structure actually affects the experience of a Haiku.

Alan:
An intriguing question in various ways.  The word 'haiku' if used for a Japanese poem is not a proper noun, so it does not require to be capitalised unless like any word that starts a sentence of course.

A choice of literary structure affecting the experience of a poem, haiku in particular? Do you mean that if a person, whether regular poet or not, decides to write poetry, and decides upon an idea of haiku poetry, it affects them in a specific manner?



Malcolm:
(2) In other words:  how does one structure make the experience different than another structure (?)


Alan:
I'm sure if someone only attempts to write limericks then they will look for different subject matter than someone who wishes to write sonnets. Could you expand?


Malcolm:
(3) Here is an example.

(4)  In prose, I could say:

went . . . store . . . bought . . . food

(5) Or I could say:

I went to the store and bought food.


Alan:
I can understand that (4) is a useful shorthand for a note stuck to a fridge. And (5) might be on a leaf of paper from a notebook left on a table?


Malcolm:
(6) In a Haiku I could say:

faded paper plate
pinned to roadside tree
"picnic" with arrow


Alan:
I feel this grouping of words gives an entirely different type of information. All three are in past tense, whereas a haiku verse is invariably in the present tense. The three line note suggests an observation of a note about a picnic that was relevant for an hour perhaps, but is now something of mild curiosity for non-involved people perhaps parking up for another type of rest stop?

As an attempt at haiku, but grammatically written in the past tense, but perhaps written as if a person has spotted a note about a past event, it's interesting. The past event which has been and gone has a person from the present day notice a sign of a picnic from the past.

Grammatically I would add an indefinite article [a] to the second line.

e.g.

pinned to a roadside tree

or

the faded paper plate
pinned to a roadside tree
"picnic" with arrow

It's actually a senryu, so grammatically it could eschew the haiku cut [kire] and be:


the faded paper plate
pinned to a roadside tree
is "picnic" with arrow

or

the faded paper plate
pinned to a roadside tree
is "picnic" with an arrow


Malcolm:
(7) Or I could say:

on faded paper plate
pinned to the roadside tree
"picnic" with an arrow


Alan:
I guess you could add 'on' but why not

on a faded paper plate
pinned to the roadside tree
"picnic" with an arrow

or

on the faded paper plate
pinned to a roadside tree
"picnic" with an arrow

?


Malcolm:
(8.) What is the specific experiential ("phenomenological') difference (?)


Alan:
So one definition or description of "phenomenological" is:
"the science of phenomena as distinct from that of the nature of being."

So is a message about food a phenomena? I guess in its simplest level it is. We think and act about food every day, whether once, twice, three or four times or even more including non-nutritional or nutritional "snacks". It's a regular phenomena that we wish to have food, whether allowed or denied. Western or non-Japanese haiku do focus on direct experience (experiential) poetry and almost exclusively written in the present tense even if the event occurred weeks, months or even years previously.


I feel that this is more to do about the most effective method of communication in general. Or are you exploring haiku as a potential means of communication?

Thanks, Malcolm.

What is the most effective mode of communication now. It used to be the meme, didn't it. Right now it's QAnon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QAnon


As we know, haiku and tanka were used as propaganda immediately after the Pearl Harbour attack just before Japan entered the WWII arena. Now we have a political Pearl Harbour but now it's a single nation pitting its own people against each other.

Which kind or type of communication are you interested about, and is it propaganda, conspiracy theory, past events, current or future ones, or what currently passes as normal or actually attempting to unearth "the normal"?

Intrigued by your responses.

warm regards,
Alan

Quote from: Malcolm on July 23, 2020, 09:54:00 AM
Please:

(1) I'm interested in how choice of literary structure actually affects the experience of a Haiku.

(2) In other words:  how does one structure make the experience different than another structure (?)

(3) Here is an example.

(4)  In prose, I could say:

went . . . store . . . bought . . . food

(5) Or I could say:

I went to the store and bought food.

(6) In a Haiku I could say:

faded paper plate
pinned to roadside tree
"picnic" with arrow

(7) Or I could say:

on faded paper plate
pinned to the roadside tree
"picnic" with an arrow

(8.) What is the specific experiential ("phenomenological') difference (?)

Thanks, Malcolm.

EDIT REASON:
Correction. Mistakenly said (6) instead (5)

re:

I can understand that (4) is a useful shorthand for a note stuck to a fridge. And (5) might be on a leaf of paper from a notebook left on a table?

.

Hi Marion,

Yes, it's been an amazing series of events, including an outreach element, and donations to each of the museums featured.

It was also fun for haiku and tanka poets who don't normally get to see and speak with Karen!

We hope to do something similar later in the year.  :)

Alan

Quote from: Seaview (Marion Clarke) on July 17, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
Just spotted this - sounds amazing!

Thanks Carol!

I posted a retrospective investigation into how and why I wrote the haiku including a note about "rêverie observation" my latest term as part of slip-realism:
https://haikucommentary.wordpress.com/2020/07/07/alan-summers-duskfall/comment-page-1/#comment-3809

warm regards,
Alan

Quote from: flowerfox on July 08, 2020, 12:02:22 PM
Excellent, Alan, and always of interest to read the thoughts of others within this site. It's amazing what is seen in so few words.
I do like the black and white element mentioned. Many things to ponder on, which leads the reader into the verse.

Congratulations.

A few of us have had at least one haiku turned down, sent back, rejected, several times, only for the poem to end up in a highly regarded journal or placed in a contest.

Sometimes we can work out why the poem was so unsuccessful while at other times we will forever be scratching our heads.

This haiku was rejected by one established journal and two contests, yet was picked up by the highly regarded The Heron's Nest which subjects each submission to a round of voting by the entire panel of editors.

The haiku has just been the subject of a commentary by Hifsa Ashraf, and Nicholas Klacsanzky:

Alan Summers' duskfall
https://haikucommentary.wordpress.com/2020/07/07/alan-summers-duskfall/

Always have faith!

Hi Joshua,

A great question because it would be great to hear from a wide range of haiku writers, both new and long-standing, about their aims and practices.

My standing is both well-documented as well as well-known either through Call of the Page (formerly With Words) and across social media platforms.

I'm still journeying as haiku, unlike its pre-1896 haikai verses, is in constant flux, which makes it freer than most poetics.

Flux

Noun. 1. state of flux - a state of uncertainty about what should be done (usually following some important event) preceding the establishment of a new direction of action; "the flux following the death of the emperor"

State of flux - definition of state of flux by The Free Dictionarywww.thefreedictionary.com ›

flux. The noun flux describes something that constantly changes. If your likes, dislikes, attitudes, dreams, and even friends are changing all the time, you may be in flux. Flux can also mean being unsure about a decision. ... You're in flux until you hear from the potential employer.
Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com

We've reached another interesting flux with the extremism of governments formerly known as democratic institutions, the murder of Black citizens and other BAME humans, and Covid-19 Pandemic, through which climate changes and great social upheavals have all coalesced. How the heck do we absorb all of that, either piecemeal, or as a body of work, and incorporating this into our writing?



One of my main themes is the in-betweenness (society, natural history etc...) which is a culmination of MA (see below), 'now' and 'then' with acute contemporary, and "rêverie" observations, slip-realism, and social and natural history awareness. A tall order! :-)

How or can we use our old tools, either perceived ones from Japan, or Western and other non-Japanese essays and articles, or something else, as we are forcibly projected into the real 21st Century?

A lot about what I say about haiku does tend to go into the feedback documents that are sent out on the various Call of the Page email haiku group and individual courses, Skype, and Zoom sessions.

Occasionally I'll post something on my Area 17 blog, or be interviewed.

March 2020 interview:
https://www.inkyvoices.com/podcast/episode-023-alan-summers-amp-karen-hoy

February 2019:
https://haikucommentary.wordpress.com/2019/02/18/interview-with-alan-summers/

December 2016:
Interview with the Sonic Boom magazine regarding white space and white paintings:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/61020d_8aa281272a5d4522becef0eb4f4e5a3a.pdf 

September 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VS36AGVI6s


Recent ebook collections show aesthetics which involve examples of monoku, monostich, and duostich:
https://area17.blogspot.com/2020/06/recent-haiku-poetry-collections-by-alan.html


I recently ran a monoku workshop with the South California Haiku Study Group in May 2020 sending ahead a new article with new exercises which I feel takes us out of any dangerously cosy risks of being too formulaic. We forget that haiku is not the haikai poetry that Basho and others wrote, and came of age pre-WWII through the New Rising Haiku movement, many of whom were reported to Secret Police by Shiki's student Kyoshi, and so a double irony, as it was Shiki in 1896 that created 'haiku' and it grew up in the protests against war profiteering. We don't have to include social injustice in our work at all, of course, but we are a small part of a larger group of communicators.

We also need to consider our versions of the Japanese MA, kire, vertical axis etc...


I've written extensively about white space/negative space which is part of our attempt at bringing Ma (間) in non-Japanese language haiku:

Ma (間) is a Japanese word which can be roughly translated as "the space between two structural parts." Ma is not something that is created by compositional elements; it takes place in the imagination of the human who experiences these elements. Therefore, ma can be defined as experiential place understood with emphasis on interval. Ma has also been described as "an emptiness full of possibilities, like a promise yet to be fulfilled," and as "the silence between the notes which make the music"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma_(negative_space)   

Some poets might avoid attempting Ma, and also of Vertical Axis, which would be a pity:
https://www.thehaikufoundation.org/juxta/juxta-1-1/beyond-the-haiku-moment-basho-buson-and-modern-haiku-myths/


Negative space in haiku
https://area17.blogspot.com/2014/03/negative-space-in-haiku-writing-poetry.html

Note that negative and white space (NWS) isn't just about the single word haiku e.g. tundra, but fuller haiku that still contain NWS.

More about monoku which Hiroaki Sato states is the common approach in Japanese. In this post back in June 2019 I investigate the 'now' in haiku via monoku:

Underlayment: The layering of meaning beyond the immediate, noticeable meaning:
https://area17.blogspot.com/2019/06/the-layering-of-meaning-beyond.html

Alan

Quote from: pottygok on June 05, 2020, 04:49:04 PM
I've been thinking a lot about haiku aesthetics lately. Clearly, there are Japanese aesthetics we're all aware of: wabi, sabi, mono no aware, ma, yugen, makoto, etc.

But what are the Western aesthetics that we bring to haiku? I'm curious to know if the past 100 years of haiku study in the United States and elsewhere, and at least 50-75 years of solid haiku writing by various practitioners, has created any sort of Western aesthetics that we should consider when writing haiku? Susan Antolin speaks of "understatement" in one of her essays, and Lee Gurga has an essay about aesthetics that's more of a summary, but I'm wondering if there are others.

What do you think? What are aesthetics that you bring to haiku? What are aesthetics that you think are important, either inherited from Japanese or other poetic traditions?

Wonderful book, highly recommended.

Alan

Just one space left, and we start later today!  ;D

We did have one wonderful person sign on last minute, and it was great drama and fun to see them arrive on our Zoom screen just a couple of minutes into the session!  Love it!  :D

Alan

Timeless Art: Haiku and tanka online gallery workshops

Second workshop announcement:
We continue on Saturday 9th May, with the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam, The Netherlands, a home to the work of Rembrandt, and Vermeer!
https://www.callofthepage.org/during-covid-19/timeless-art/

We had an incredible zoom event with North America yesterday!  8)

We also have one person from New Zealand who is definitely interested but couldn't join us for the North America time slot as it would be 4am in the morning!

So are there any more Kiwis out there who might be interested?

1st Workshop Start Times (suitable for Asia and Australasia, Africa and Europe):

London, 10 am
Paris, 11 am
New Delhi, 2.30 pm
Tokyo, 6 pm
Sydney, 7 pm
Auckland, 9 pm

Level: This workshop is suitable for those with experience of haiku or tanka, or complete beginners.

Time of day: Fortnightly up to Saturday June 27th. 

Group Size: up to 10 people.
Tutor: Your workshop leader is Alan Summers, lead tutor at Call of the Page.
Host: The workshop host and facilitator is Karen Hoy.

Cost: The price of the six online workshops is £210, which works out at £35 per workshop, and includes a donation that we will make to the gallery each time in appreciation of their resources. You can book the complete set of workshops below, or book the individual workshops separately, at £38 each.

Outreach: We also have some outreach places available, for medical and key workers, or those self-isolating with health conditions.

Please email Karen on admin@callofthepage.org, to enquire for yourself, or to nominate someone for a free or subsidised place. Everyone who takes part helps make it possible for us to fund these, so thank you.

https://www.callofthepage.org/during-covid-19/timeless-art/

There'll be further announcements about this exciting later today!

The second in the Area 17 Profile Poet Series!

The Area 17 Profile Poet Series: Clive Bennett
https://area17.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-area-17-profile-poet-series-clive.html

This online project is also making it possible for New Zealand and Australia (Southern Hemisphere) to take part as well as Northern Hemisphere countries such as USA; Canada; Europe; UK etc...

Timeless Art: Haiku and tanka online gallery workshops
https://www.callofthepage.org/during-covid-19/timeless-art/

This series of online "live" workshops is a chance to escape into some beautiful and timeless art, and write haiku and tanka in response. You'll also be supporting the international galleries whose websites we'll be referring to - Call of the Page is making a donation from the workshop fee, at this time when the galleries are unable to accept in-person visitors.

It will also be wonderful to see your faces, at this time of "social distancing" in the physical world.

FFI:  . https://www.callofthepage.org/during-covid-19/timeless-art/

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The Area 17 Profile Poet Series
Hemapriya Chellappan
(b. Chennai, India)
Engineer & Writer
https://area17.blogspot.com/2020/04/the-area-17-profile-poet-series-hats.html

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Writing Through It
This course is offered as a response to experiences of the coronavirus pandemic as we live it. Writing over 3 months across a choice of short forms in poetry or prose.
https://www.callofthepage.org/during-covid-19/writing-through-it/

***
NOTE:
Some outreach places will be available on the "Writing Through It" Course.
More about these will be announced shortly. Please keep checking our website or sign up to our newsletter.
Link: www.callofthepage.org


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