The Haiku Foundation Forums

By hokku we mean pre-Shiki (especially the http://bit.ly/big-5 of Nippon's classical period). By haiku we mean post-Shiki (in the global sense as well as regionally in Japan). Some may suggest another watershed, and others still may propose that there is no division. Whatever your perspective feel free to share any ideas in your own words.

For focus: Is the following a haiku, hokku, or neither?

so scruffy and crass
the sparrow's children-
splashing in dust

jp

DOES HAIKU-VISION OVERRULE PAVLOVIAN REFLEX?

In other words, can we step out of our dog suits into the real if we do haiku properly and evolve our consciousness' potential a bit. Which begs the question, is it possible, with a western mind-set, to do this magical act - especially given the ubiquitous confusion which surrounds the whole business of haiku, over here in Paradise?


John

Basho's frog haiku.

Here's my own translation, from years ago, which I subsequently diiscovered was coefficient with Jane's (and, for the same reason - do you know what that reason is, incidentally?). . . .


old pond
a frog jumps in
the sound of water


Now. I've been returning to this astonishing non-rhyming tercet by the great man regularly for years. Every so often somethng new is realised. When it was first read, back in the day, it seemed so straight forward, you know, a child's picture story. However, as time marched irrevocably onwards, my understanding of THE KU IN ITSELF and one's PERSONAL REACTION TO THE KU MATERIAL deepened (as I continued the dive).

Thus is the basis of my question. It not only applies to other's ku, you see, but also, in my own experience, our own ku. The question might have been: Can we ever fathom a ku? So, maybe that can pad quietly in the background, also. . . .


jp

Hi everyone

Just been asking this question over at Jane's forum and wondered if anyone could throw some light on it here:


How would YOU translate ma?


My position. . . .

Trying to deepen understanding (and skill set) in relation to ma (its been an ongoing, back-burner sort of project for a few months). Currently I'm exploring it from the roots up (again). There are glyphs that contribute towards the meaning of the ideogram. They picture a torii type gateway. We seem to have 'betweeness' as the catchphrase.



This interval 'aspect' of ma appears to be arrived at by defining the glyphs separately, then synthesising the result, and this in relation to Japanese aesthetic usage. We seem to have 'door' and 'sun or day' for the parts. Would you agree with that, yourself? I have a hunch, you see, that there's more to ma than its application in aesthetics - or rather, it may be that understanding is still not fully delivered yet to us 'foreigners' outside of Nippon. If there is a larger context to ma, then this may enlighten some of the deeper issues in the practice and enjoyment of haiku. In fact, haiku may be much more than, to date, has been documented, anywhere - even by the 'experts'?

jp

Image source:
http://www.jp41.com/kanji/ma.html

The best way to set the scenario, the backstory, for a haiku, so as not to compromise its methodology of
presenting a living experience, you know, rather than an epigramatical explanation, is haibun-at a stretch,
perhaps, a haiga. Or, is it? . . .



That certain feeling; the subtle thrill of a skein of light joy,
evoked by some refined delight or other -
you know, like, oh I don't know . . .
/
the leaf's ripple
in a puddle—
disappearing

jp



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*pic by jp
Related Topic: http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/in-depth-haiku-free-discussion/if-we-tell-is-it-a-haiku/15/

Perhaps the idea of haiku being utilised as a prayer (as some suggest) is well possible, if that is the intent.

However, there seems a more compelling case for haiku to be understood more as a magic spell than a prayer (or even poetry). More precisely, not a full spell, though. Rather, half a magic spell.

What is meant by 'half a magic spell'?

The explanation goes like this:

In order to enjoy a little haiku movie; conjured, called fourth, or evoked by the words (the 'spell') of a haiku, we need, of course, to engage with the inner vision enshrined in, or accessed through, each haiku's verbal. However, it is suggested that we may enter the haiku's inner diorama and, if we so choose and are bold, wander about in it - aimlessly, or with purpose.

In essence -it is whispered- we can do an 'inner journey', or 'pathworking', with all that this implies. (Other uses may be left to the reader's muses and their discretion.)

So, at this stage of the game we have now entered the movie and are gone into a magic spell's universe- not the 'halfway only' invitation, which is simply to contemplate a little haiku movie. The standard haiku trip has now morphed into a whole other kettle of tadpoles.

Maybe we could call this, somewhat startling, notion: 'The Hidden Secret Of Haiku'.

I quite like this idea, at least in principal, and it does seem to have its own meta-logic to it, don't you agree?

Anyway, why not do a test drive and 'see' if it works? (But, for God's sake, don't eat any fairy food - you might not return for a year and a day!) . . .


old pond
a fog jumps in
the sound of water

— Basho



^_^


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This topic follows through from a previous one (enantiodromia): http://www.thehaikufoundation.org/forum_sm/religio/haiku-as-prayer/

Reading the classics of haiku, out of old Japan, we cannot help but be made aware of a depth surrounding the mental mirage of everyday life that can sometimes make us shiver in our haiku walking boots. We are reminded that all around us is a mystery in process so vast and pressing that, when we gravitate back to our daily mundane tasks, it bugs us. Reading much that passes for haiku here in the humanist and scientific West, I cannot help but wonder where that, at least nodding, respect to the infinite has got lost along the haiku way. What, if anything, should we do about that - any ideas?


On a journey,
Resting beneath the cherry blossoms,
I feel myself to be in a Noh play.

— Basho


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Note: There are many technical terms that can help us understand the more mystical aspects of haiku and its practice. However, leaving these aside as a requirement, what are members own intuitive feelings about the implications enbedded in this topic's question. Just being alive qualifies you to respond. No worries about being clever, proving it using Google Search and presenting reams of curriculum vitae. Plain language and sincerity is fine. Whether you're a haiku tadpole or a haiku frog - share your views! ^_^

More precisely, is: Show, Not Tell, the primary foundation of haiku, without which we have an epigram or whatever? If we were to eliminate just one formal element from a haiku, which one would be the one to render a haiku not a haiku - you know, that would bring the house tumbling down?


a frog jumping
into an old pond
makes a noise

~anon


old pond
a frog jumps in
the sound of water

~Basho


Here's an interesting item to focus the mind:
http://www.writedesignonline.com/assignments/shownottell.html