The Haiku Foundation Forums

Re:
Sweeping into the pan
the narrow line of dust
that defies its edge.

James W. Hackett

This is a lovely haiku, but to be honest, the word "that" makes it less anthropomorphic and more descriptive.

Hey, Scott,

I've been following the discussions of your question, Is haiku in English a socially relevant poetics in the 21st century?, and although the responses have been serious, articulate and interesting,  they have focused on the social relevancy of haiku, not its "poetics," which is generally defined as "the art of writing poetry" or "the study of linguistic techniques in poetry and literature." * Two responses did refer to this  aspect, but were cursory.

So, my question to you is, Now that you have seen the replies, do they address your intent?  or if not, perhaps you would restate the question, guiding us to how we should look at  "socially relevant" with "the art of writing poetry." 

Thanks,
lulu

*Oxford Dictionary

Hello, John,

You are a good poet with a fine reputation, and so people like me listen to what you say. However, I'm not sure that your "I find the comments about having nothing to ponder in Elizabeth's haiku a tad harsh" is accurate.

The gist of the original comment by Devora was about whether Lamb's one-liner was a true haiku. Some readers, because they could visualize and/or fill in the blanks – as you did – found it to have merit as a haiku.

Others, like Devora, thought it was a more of a "narrative," a "telling," or a simple sentence that did not meet the criteria of a genuine haiku. In other words, for some, there was nothing to ponder, but the critique was an objective observation, not a personal attack.

I have gone through the comments, and I didn't see anything that rose to the level of "a tad harsh." In fact, I thought the discussion was interesting and informative.

Please let us know what you thought was "a tad harsh" (maybe we didn't see it) so that we can ensure any serious exchanges of ideas are always free of such characterizations.   

Tray --

You are right. It has been disappointing that there have been so few in-depth discussions because there is so much about today's haiku today to talk about, but perhaps, here's one reason – and in a very real way, it is a tribute to the ever-stimulating Haiku Foundation site.

It appears to me that the very people who had often taken part in some of the in-depth discussions have moved their energy (and time) over to the "Mentoring" section, both for beginners (where they critique new poets), but especially to the advanced site. All of a sudden there is a place for many well-known haijin to give and get feedback on their existing – almost daily – work. It is a magnet, an instant gratification that's too good to pass up. Some haiku entries have many responses, with varied and interesting commentary. One recent entry prompted 20 responses, including interesting analyses and notes such as "enjoyable thread" and "great discussion."

These sites, of course, do not make up for the really stimulating exchanges that had been, as you said, so much a part of THF in-depth discussions at one time. The interesting thing to me is that, as far as I know, there is absolutely no other place to go to share commentaries on a more advanced level. For example, I just read an essay in Haibun Today that I would have liked to rebut, but there was no place within the journal to send it. Now that I think about it, and after reading your comment, I could have highlighted that part of the article and talked about it in the in-depth discussion site (giving proper attribution, etc.).

All of this is to say, thanks for your comment, and reminding those of us who love THF site, that there is a place to talk about haiku and be heard. Perhaps your remarks will stimulate some new submissions. 
 

next time –
i'm glad there
is one

lulu

The per diem today . . .

quietly
we become
audience
- Hilary Tann

is as close to Jim Kacian's extraordinary haiku* on transformation as I have seen lately. I love the idea of transformation, and wish there were more.

*in a tent in the rain i become a climate

—Jim Kacian

(Per Diem ku for 7.22.11)

*

If the following, from August 15th's per diem is considered a haiku, with respect, would someone, please explain why.

blue apple
it gives birth
to a mirror

- Scott Metz

Examining the word "become" in Jim's ku is intriguing because it asks us to either take a journey or to be there all at once (as posited in Peter's suggestion "I am a climate").  Seems to me much of the poetry is in the voyage (I liked the sensation of undergoing the change in Jim's and others*).

*"become" seems to work well in some of the other examples too:

Tohta's "become a motorcycle" vs. I am a motorcycle
Aoyagi's "I failed to become a swan" vs. I am not a swan
Swede's "before it becomes a water lily" vs. it is a water lily

In response to "tension" or "frisson."  Yes. It is a much more accurate description of what a good haiku is, for it appears that the "aha" moment has gotten drunk, and may even be an alcoholic.



(removed link as it doesn't qualify under our TOS ... takes people to an insurance commercial website, Don)