Happy New Years to all. The below is a haiku I created just for an example.
(A)
flashlight
illuminating a child's grin
hide and seek
This seems to read more in the present moment than the below alternative:
(B)
flashlight
illuminates a child's grin
hide and seek
I've read many of the standard ku books (Higginson, Gurga, etc), but cannot remember this topic coming up. It seems pretty standard, something I should have a quick answer for.
My questions are the following:
1) Are both acceptable?
2) Am I correct in assuming that example A is more ku-like?
3) Like in most arts, I understand that once you learn all the rules, it's possible to then break them. I've seen four line haiku, haiku that have one phrase that runs on for three lines, etc. Is this just another example of the author's preference? If I feel the second is stronger, I should go with it?
Thanks in advance.
Hi Lucas, I like the idea of this but for me this felt a bit telling, and the feeling or emotion of this moment didn't quite hit the mark but it may just be me, perhaps if hide and seek is inferred rather than actually
said ? Hope this is helpful it feels nearly there. Sometimes getting right inside the moment works better than trying to do things by the book, by all means keep what you learn in mind but then dive right into the heart of the moment. A very happy new year to you and yours.
Hello, Lucas,
I'm going to try to answer your questions, but in my experience, there are not a lot of "quick answers" in haiku. Please understand that this is just my perspective, hence it is not the final word on the subject. (I'm not sure there is a definitive answer, by the way -- as you've noticed, there is a wide latitude in contemporary English-language haiku). And I'm going to try to answer without getting too English-teacher on you.
The reason the first seems "more in the present moment" is that it is in the present progressive tense, which shows ongoing action -- what's happening started before the moment of the haiku and continued afterwards. The second, in the simple present, is a statement about something that happens, without showing ongoing action.
To your questions, then . . .
1. Both are acceptable, as I'm sure you've noticed in reading the journals and anthologies. It really comes down to what you want each of your haiku to accomplish.
2. I'm not convinced "haiku-like" is a useful perspective. (When you bake bread, if you do, do you consider whether it's "bread-like"? Or do you follow the process and know that what comes out is bread?) If you consider your intentions for each poem you write, delve deeply into the experience and find the words that best illuminate it, and are mindful of the structures, elements, and characteristics of haiku, what you write will be haiku. "Haiku-like", as its name suggests, is an imitation, and a lot of really bad "haiku" are written from that perspective. Okay, climbing down off the soapbox now.
3. Which form of the verb, or even no verb at all, is the poet's choice in each poem written. You are right, you need to learn the "rules" before you can successfully break them, and what "breaking the rules" comes down to is making a decision to deviate from the form for a very specific reason. There has to be something in the deviation that enhances your haiku in a way that it couldn't be enhanced using more conventional means. You need to be able to say "I'm going to do this differently because . . ." and the answer needs to be more substantial than ". . . because it's a novel way to do it." It has to be for some benefit of the poem.
I go back and forth between verb tenses frequently when I'm revising my work; I don't have any real rules about it, although I do have a couple of guidelines, which I'll get to after this. My decision-making is a combination of using my ears (which tense sounds best when read out loud, and not just in terms of meter), deciding which tense best captures the moment, and figuring out which tense makes for a fresher experience for any readers who happen to see it.
Here are a couple of instances when I do tend to choose one verb form over another. I tend not to like more than one -ing word in a haiku because it can get rather sing-songy, so if I have "morning" or "evening" I will think twice about using the present progressive. I often use the pp when I have a collective noun, because the distance between subject and verb can sound as though there's disagreement in number even though there isn't. (Here's an example: I might write "a murder of crows settles / into the hemlock", but that "crows settles" sounds as though it should be "crows settle", even though the subject is actually the collective noun, "murder". So I would avoid that distraction by writing "a murder of crows settling / into the hemlock".)
Lucas, I hope I've helped instead of confusing you further!
cat
A very clear and "multi-useful" answer from Cat.
I wonder if you do need the verb in the draft versions? If you removed the verb and tightened up the phrase part I think you have a nice haiku in the making. :-)
Alan
"(A)
flashlight
illuminating a child's grin
hide and seek
This seems to read more in the present moment than the below alternative:
(B)
flashlight
illuminates a child's grin
hide and seek
1) Are both acceptable?
2) Am I correct in assuming that example A is more ku-like? "
I dunno, Lucas, which is more 'haiku-like'. What I do know is there has been a bit of confusion in some quarters of American haiku over the years as to what a gerund is, and I fought a (seemingly) one-woman battle over a few years to clear up a fairly widespread misapprehension. (if it looks like a continuous form of a verb but reads as a noun in context, then it's a gerund...otherwise, it's not) If one needs a verb in the continuous tense, to show that an action is uncompleted and to distinguish it from a universal statement (dogs bark, birds fly, poets rave on) the I'd say use it.
But have you noticed, in your two examples, that the lack of an article? ( the, a, an) This makes your verses seem 'chopped'. Someone once called this 'Tontoism', after the speaking manner of the Lone Ranger's sidekick. A less politically correct term has been 'Japlish'. Like it or not, with English we're stuck with articles unless we want to appear as E.S.L. beginners.
That said, Alan's thoughts re the verb are worth consideration, too. Sometimes a preposition can work just as well, or a simpler verb:
the flashlight
catches a child's grin--
L 3
a child's grin
in the flashlight's beam --
L3
...just examples
- Lorin
... cheers to all of the above in the excellent comments/critiques ... plus a little suggestion for the ku besides addressing the syntax:
the flashlight
spots a child's grin ...
hide and seek
Spot works well with the "hide and seek" motif as well as resonates back to flashlight (spotlight). "on the spot", "in the spot", "in the spotlight" all relate to this well ... and validates the use of "spots" without necessarily becoming anthropomorphic. Sometimes, changing the word helps as much as adjusting the grammar.
Just thinking out loud.
Don
Thanks to all for the wonderful feedback. Sorry if I were not more clear, but I just concocted this ku to field questions about the tenses; it's quality really wasn't the concern, but I see I should have probably just used a better example. :-) Maybe I should have used a famous haiku and rewrote it in a different tense, and then we could have compared the two.
Regarding my ill choice of word--"haiku-like"--I apologize. If we had been talking movies I may have used the word cinematic (e.g., that which carries attributes of cinema). Not sure what the equivalent word for haiku would be. haikuik? Doesn't seem right. :-)
Cat, thank you very much for the feedback regarding present progressive and simple present. It was very helpful. And I learned from it.
Lorin, you wrote that the haiku didn't have any articles, but I thought "a" counted as an article. I may be wrong. I'm trying to better understand grammar and rules. So much of it comes naturally, but I'd like to be more cognizant of what I'm doing. In any event, I agree and understand about using natural language. "Tontoism" seems popular in a lot in 5-7-5, especially zappai. (Also, on a side note, I enjoyed the latest Gean!) And the adding "the" was a good idea.
Hello again, Lucas,
I'm pretty sure that what Lorin was referring to was the article-less "flashlight" in line 1.
cat
OOPS... sorry Lucas, I didn't make myself very clear. :( This one line is what my post is actually about:
"Sometimes, changing the word helps as much as adjusting the grammar."
I was just mentioning that by changing a word or a couple you can also avoid awkward grammar. It's another idea or way to go. I should have stayed on topic. But, I got creative in my answer... LOLL 8)
Sorry for the confusion. I knew what your question was. I offered an option and forgot to address the grammar!
My fault!
The article in question, as Cat mentioned, is in line one: "the" flashlight or "a" flashlight ... depending on whether you use "a" or "the" as the possessive article for the "child".
I prefer the second haiku as I lean toward a more "active" haiku structure than passive (though, I do write passive from time to time if I feel the need). They both work, imho.
the flashlight
illuminates a child's grin
hide and seek
While both seem to work the second one is the most active which falls in line with much of Japanese tradition.
Take care and thanks for the questions. They're good for us all to ponder and revisit problems with writing haiku. I hope I was of help this time around. :)
all my best,
Don
Quote from: HaikuCowboy on January 04, 2011, 05:29:58 PM
Lorin, you wrote that the haiku didn't have any articles, but I thought "a" counted as an article. I may be wrong. I'm trying to better understand grammar and rules. So much of it comes naturally, but I'd like to be more cognizant of what I'm doing. In any event, I agree and understand about using natural language. "Tontoism" seems popular in a lot in 5-7-5, especially zappai. (Also, on a side note, I enjoyed the latest Gean!) And the adding "the" was a good idea.
Hi Lucas,
Sorry that I wasn't as clear as I might've been. Cat's right, I was referring to these:
A)flashlight/illuminating a child's grin . . .
(B)flashlight/illuminates a child's grin. . .
We'd usually say, " the flashlight/illuminating a child's grin . . .", wouldn't we? But Tonto wouldn't 8)
Or we might use a pronoun, "my flashlight" etc.
(thanks for letting me know you're enjoying the haiku in the current issue of NFTG. I've just finished compiling the haiku section for the March issue. It'll go online on March 1st)
-Lorin
flashlight/illuminates a child's grin. . .
Thanks to all for the wonderful feedback. This forum is certainly a great place to learn about and discuss haiku. It's such a treat to have such wonderful poets willing to mentor and be available to haikuists.
Btw, for some reason I only receive the first email notification when somebody responds, and then I don't receive additional alerts. I'm not sure if it's set up that way or a small error. Just that I'd mention as an fyi.
Hello, Lucas,
You might want to go to your profile, then go to the e-mails and notifications link on the left (can't remember exactly what it's called, but you'll see it), and make sure that the notifications you want are checked. There's a drop-down menu, too, you might want to look at.
Hope this helps.
cat
Thanks, Cat. I seem to have remedied it.
I thought this was a funny coincidence. But I was reading the latest issue of Upstate Dim Sum and came across this wonderful haiku:
hide and seek
the moon
has its way
--- Yu Chang