The Haiku Foundation Forums

New to Haiku => New to Haiku: Free Discussion Area => Topic started by: Bea on December 28, 2010, 07:54:17 AM

Title: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Bea on December 28, 2010, 07:54:17 AM
In the "Mentoring" forum area, I was glad to see a recent observation about real experiences sometimes being too much of a "hard sell" to work in a haiku. I was really glad to see this, because I've run across this more than once. Example: I live in south Louisiana where we often have very warm spells even in the depths of winter. Last December, during one such warm spell, our sasanquas were blooming beautifully. I noticed that even though it was a windless day, all the flower heads were nodding gently. When I looked closer, I saw they were full of hungry, busy honey bees. My heart leapt because of all be problems we've heard about honeybees disappearing, etc, but who would believe I saw bees in December except a small handful of people who live in the Deep South? Do I change to a different season, even though December made the experience all that more beautiful? (We DO get plenty of cold, after all). I think changing the season would significantly alter the experience, even though it would be more believable to more people. Not sure what to do.

Bea
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Laura Sherman on December 28, 2010, 09:47:20 AM
Bea, I think you should write what is true to you, what is in your heart.  You can always add an explanation, which helps the reader understand.

There are so many rules in haiku.  Many conflict with one another.  As I learn more and more about haiku, I try to understand the rules and follow them whenever possible, but in an instance like this, don't you dare back away from this powerful moment and beautiful image!!
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Gael Bage on December 28, 2010, 09:52:20 AM
yes Bea, with persistence you will find a way through, here in South east UK we are getting unseasonal happenings too, it results in odd things occurring, this year alone I have seen bumble bees partaking of the flowers outside the supermarket in winter on a sunny day - fungi in december - pear blossom in july resulting in a second crop - apple blossom in autumn which produced no fruit - dandelion seed floating over deep snow in winter - one daisy in mid-winter.....a weird combination of global warming and an arctic winter, like you I am struggling with this and want to be true to the moment, sometimes including another sense or emotion with the particular moment can give the reader a clue, if it's not in their experience it's understandable, as global warming increases this will occur in more places

my mouth agape -
a dandelion seed drifts
over pristine snow

I find internal moments can pose the same problem, crystal clear to us....but it takes ingenuity to transfer the moment successfully, using all five senses and emotions / feelings, helps round up the moment
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: cat on December 28, 2010, 11:16:58 AM
Hello, Bea,

In a situation such as you suggest, I would suggest a haibun.  Admittedly, because of the distance needed between prose and haiku, it might not allow you to use the haiku you had in mind.

But if the impulse to share the experience is the important one, haibun will allow you to do that very, very well.

cat
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Don Baird on December 28, 2010, 11:30:07 AM
1)  We should write true to what we witness;

2)  And, as Cat mentions, a haibun is always an option.

... just thinking out loud

Don
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: AlanSummers on December 28, 2010, 11:50:32 AM
Bea said:
In the "Mentoring" forum area, I was glad to see a recent observation about real experiences sometimes being too much of a "hard sell" to work in a haiku. I was really glad to see this, because I've run across this more than once.

I think you should have fun creating a Louisiana season guide for haiku users. ;-)

re your opening comment, I think some true experiences are difficult sometimes to place within a haiku, but it's perservering with.

I for one, will be fascinated by your local observations made in haiku (and even haibun). ;-)
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Edward Zuk on December 28, 2010, 12:49:47 PM
If a haibun won't work, you could also consider a short head note:  "This year in Louisiana there was a warm spell in December:"

The haiku itself is what's important.
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: AlanSummers on December 28, 2010, 03:33:09 PM
Not a bee... ;-)

convolvulus
a word on my tongue
and the bumblebee

Blithe Spirit  Vol 14 No. 4 (2004)


But dandelions... ;-)


(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bsvBfekvbuM/TLWYGRDZFII/AAAAAAAABNY/6FZTeLYGA7Q/s1600/Alan+Summers+lazy+afternoon+haiga.jpg)


1.  Haiga artwork by Kuniharu Shimizu (Tokyo, Japan) published at 'see haiku here' (2010)
2. 'Aesthetics' Bath Spa University literary journal, (Summer 2007)
3.  'Haiku Friends 2' Editor: Masaharu Hirata, Osaka, Japan (2007)

Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Bea on December 28, 2010, 04:12:59 PM
Thanks so much for the wonderful input! I had abandoned the idea of making a haiku about that moment, but now I'm excited about the idea of a haibun! Maybe I'll try both and see which works best!

Alan, it DID occur to me to start a collection of season words for the Deep South, especially after exploring the World Kigo Database. Very interesting ideas.
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: sandra on December 28, 2010, 04:40:58 PM
And another way of doing it is to put your locale in the haiku, for instance:

Louisiana winter -
honeybees
find the flowers

or some such.

The Japanese masters often used place names in their haiku but it seems to be something that's not so "done" in English.

I once sent a haiku to a well-known US journal, a poem that contained the name of a tree that is unique to where I live. The editor said there had often been discussion about the use proper nouns that wouldn't be immediately recognisable to American readers but nothing had ever been resolved and he doubted whether the haiku would be accepted. It wasn't.

I don't have a problem with footnotes to a haiku - partly because I feel I'm missing the full impact of a classical haiku if I don't understand what connotations the place name carries, and partly because my home land is full of unique flora and fauna and it would be nice if I could use my native plants and birds in haiku and send those poems to overseas publications.
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: AlanSummers on December 28, 2010, 04:49:38 PM
Hi Sandra,

I had the same problem with one or two magazines as I'd lowercased the region name.  Bob Spiess was happy to accept the haiku for Modern Haiku, so the previous two magazines did me a favour. ;-)

The region was Far North Queensland, and as the earlier submissions to magazines (I can't remember then now) had far north queensland they thought I was being poetic. Go figure. ;-)

You should submit the haiku to a new magazine, don't give up on it yet.  A friend of mine (she also writes haiku) had a poem rejected over twenty odd times, guess what?  She submitted it to a fine publication called the Times Literary Supplement and they not only accepted, but she's one of the few poets with an account with them.

Just keep sending the haiku out, straightaway.  Unless there is something else about the haiku, and do have a long hard look, it should get accepted eventually.

If you like me to take a look at the haiku offlist, I'd be honoured.  Although I'm a Brit and honourary Aussie, I'm more than comfortable and familiar with American haiku.

Alan
Title: Re: Localized experiences that are a "hard sell"
Post by: Lorin on December 28, 2010, 05:51:32 PM
". . .who would believe I saw bees in December except a small handful of people who live in the Deep South?"

Hi Bea,
          Those, like myself, who live in 'the Deeper South', would believe you, for a start. :-) That is, anyone who lives in a temperate zone south of the equator, where bees are very active in December, the first month of Summer and there may be a few, ragged, last azaleas about. (had to say that :-)

Gradually, gradually, editors from all around the world are recognising that haiku can be written from anywhere, that seasonal references will differ from region to region and that, as far as English-language haiku goes, there are no kigo. Kigo is Japanese,a tradition inherited from ancient Japanese and Chinese poetry and established in feudal times with a focus on a particular locality in Japan. Nevertheless, we need to know about kigo, just as we need to know that the world was long ago, by Columbus (I think) proved not to be flat. Neither will a nature-type seasonal reference in Brazil be likely to coincide with one from Minneapolis, though some social-religious seasonal references will. Christmas is an example, since Christmas is celebrated on the 25th of December world wide.

kangaroo-apple month -
the malls are decked
with plastic holly

paper wasp, December 2010

Use your own experiences, your own locality and your own idiom. There is no 'right' region for English-language haiku. Like America, the UK varies in climate from north Scotland to southern England, just as it does from Alaska to Georgia, and in Australia the far north (or the 'deep north' as those of us in the southern states, with good reason, are likely to refer to it as  ;D ) is tropical whereas the far south is cool temperate, so there are huge differences. If you don't want to be 'northern-hemisphere-o-centric', why not say 'bees in winter' rather than 'bees in December'? Or find another way of saying 'early winter', such as using a plant generally associated with early December in your area?

bees in my basil—
  a pair of evangelists
  hesitate

- Paper Wasp, vol. 15, number 2, 2009

Imagine how far this next one would've got in a U.S.A. journal if I'd used the name of the month (August, actually) instead of 'winter':

sharing my view
through this tour bus window,
a winter fly                                   

Modern Haiku, issue 41.1, 2010.

:D

- Lorin